The Blacklist - "Miles McGrath #65" Episode 4.3 Discussion

Red and the Task Force take extreme measures to hunt down one of Alexander Kirk's allies, Miles McGrath, a "criminal incubator" who finances crimes for profit. Meanwhile, Liz learns more about her family.


Tabasko said...


Tatiana said...

Thank you Tabasko!
I guess now we will find out what becomes of Mr. Kaplan! I hope they get closer to finding Agnes.
See you on the hour :-)

Tabasko said...

I'm very curious about how Agnes will be and where she ends up by the time Redemption starts.

Ines said...

Hi all,

I'm still stuck at my office, finishing a presentation for tomorrow, but I will join the watching xD. I'm not falling asleep like last week! Bahh

Tatiana, me to!! I'm really hoping that maybe Dembe comes back to pay is respect, or bury her, as finds her alive. During the week I have come to terms with Red actions, as a man that do not forgive how betray him, but it pains me not having Mr.Kaplan around. I think at some point in this season Red will come to understand what Mr.Kaplan was telling him, that she was just following his directives, and regret his actions. That or when Mr.Kaplan comes back to hunt him!

Tabasko, will you join tonight?

Tabasko said...

Hi, Ines!

Good luck! I will be around.

lists said...

Masha's room. in my re-watch tonight, I noticed something odd about Masha's room. did anyone notice that there seem to be 2 of everything? 2 dolls at the table, 2 stuffed animals on the dollhouse, 2 dolls in the window, on the bookshelves, what looks like 2 horses, and 2 little chairs in front of the fireplace.

Kirk is looking creepier to me!

lara1 said...

LOL, i've acquired a new name - lists! that was me in #6.

Tatiana said...

Ready, set, go!

Lake Girl said...

lara1, aka lists, I didn't notice that. Interesting

Tatiana said...

Robbing plutonium? Or some kind of radioactive material?

Oh my gosh! A power station!

Ines said...

ohhh Aram, you sweetie!!

Samar is done with all this! all the faking and drama!

Tatiana said...

How did Liz not collect the dots with Kirk's blood disorder and her biological child?
hmmm. so what's the deal with Kirk?

Oh Kate! She's bleeding out!

Husband just said, "I have a feeling I"m not gonna like this episode"

yeah, I think we all just went underground and it's pretty scary this deep criminal world!

lara1 said...

I think Red and Liz need more of a discussion than that!

Tabasko said...

Tatiana, maybe Liz didn't, but we did! Lol.

Colleen P. said...

The word of the day is "symmetry." Aram is the best :)

lara1 said...

Tabs and Tatiana,

I missed that about Kirk's disoderr/Agnes. what did she say?

lara1 said...

I think we know what happened to Kaplan - can they only show it in a reflection? oh dear

Big Bad Bazzer said...

Symmetry - and there's a whole lot of "strategists" going around! lol

Mr. Kaplan is alive - crawling to the edge of water, struggling to get back in the game, who knows what side she'll be on!

Reminds me a bit of Hetty in NCIS: LA

Bit taller, though! Heck 4 month old babies are taller than Hetty!

Anonymous said...

Another mirror image - Mr. Kaplan's reflection in the water.

Ines said...

Hum.., nice points!

Dembe is going for Kate!

lara1 said...

intrigued by the journal. I wonder if it has actual names or abbreviations - "r" could be "r". (the two R's)...or the whole journal could be a fake. lot of work to go to though. I'm guessing its real and Liz may mis-interpret it.

Big Bad Bazzer said...

Prolly Dembe - I suspect Sam & Callan from NCIS are too busy! lol

Tatiana said...

KR - backwards R in Russian is "ya" sound. "P" in Russian is R.

I"m just going to assume they did this because most viewers wouldn't otherwise get it, but that's a little disappointing.

Miles McGrath - wow, he's wicked to the core. Interesting the mirror of his strategist and cleaner;

Oh this is clever - I love how they're intertwining the FBI's operations, Red's operations, Liz and Tom as a unit, and now Red's "friend" -

Oh my heart just breaks seeing Kate so bludgeoned!

Lara - Kirk has that blood disorder, he tells Liz I think when they're sitting at the piano about it.

Tatiana said...

They are upping the ante now with those major biohazards. Sheesh, that could wipe out, what? a country? a state? Scary... Miles McGrath is crazy. Literally.

lara1 said...

Tatiana -thanks. I think that's right on the journal. Not authentic but a lot of viewers would not get it otherwise.

Im still wondering whether its real. Soviet Union put out a lot of official misinformation in the day. Did Krik produce it knowing Liz would find it somehow But I still think some of it is true, kirk/red mirror images of same story again.....

time will tell I guess!

Tatiana said...

Now this is the old Blacklist we all enjoyed. On the edge of my seat I am. Wow. Miles What a smarty pants. Intrigue, web, and Red was Katerina's assignment! He was madly, passionately in love with her.

Lake Girl said...

I don't want Kirk to be her father!

lara1 said...

Aha! we sleuths knew the blood disorder thing. Red's words - interesting - something like, he thinks you the long lost daughter, something like that....hmmm

Still don't have a full Kaplan answer! I don't think its Dembe as he's with Red whenever we see him?

Some nice twists with the Miles McGrath thing. very well played.

Now, the re-watch for more symbols.....LOL

Big Bad Bazzer said...

Mrs. Kaplan getting the full sled-dog treatment. Man, she's been thru a lot - seems like she's in an episode of 24 where virtually nothing happens although a full day goes by!
Good guest star in the Miles McGrath kid! As per usual Tom did yeoman service this ep.
Samar is extremely conflicted!

Who's Aram's new play-toy??? lol

lara1 said...

BBB - yeah, LOL. guess he gave up on the samar thing ever working. Wonder if her Liz attitude thing turned him away.

Big Bad Bazzer said...

@ Lara #30
Perhaps Red gave Aram some names from his "pink list"??? lol

lara1 said...

just one thing - Katarina has developed a habit of appearing as a vision - whether or not one has visited the opium den! LOL. I like it, though. but it does make me smile... :)

So was Masha spared the blood disorder only because she was not a male - or because she was not Constatin's as well? Katarina got really teary eyed when she said Masha was safe from the disorder.....

Colleen P. said...

Hello everyone #19 anonymous post was from me Colleen. I completely missed any symbols in the show, just too into the storyline. But there was a jeep commercial with water, American flags, and a record player. Does that count? :)

lara1 said...

BBB - well Red does want Aram to be set up with someone. enough said!

But that was a fun surprise - cooking alone at home - nope, he has company.

The writers were really good this episode I think. weaving in a lot of loose ends - into more loose ends! LOL

lara1 said...

Hi Colleen #33 - yes, record player. I have to re-watch. I will add it to my list of phonograph sitings!
Where was it?

Big Bad Bazzer said...

lara 1 - NBC could easily re-name this show "THE LOOSE ENDS", no?

If it were Dembe's show - "DRIVING MR. SPADER"

Tatiana said...

Did you hear that?! Katerina's journal:

Constantin will now need transfusions because of his illness which has plagued his family for years, transferred from father to son. Thank God Masha is safe.

Masha is not Constantin's daughter.

Masha is Red's daughter.

CngRed said...

Ah! No one has yet mentioned... the briefest bit of Brimley (mangling poor Dembe's name, I might add). I wish we'd gotten a similar glimmer of Glenn as well, but you take what you get.

lara1 said...

Tatiana - yes I caught that too.

CngRed - Yes. That's what I liked about this episode - they threw in a little of everything we have been missing! (well maybe not Glenn)

Iowa Watcher said...

So Kate is alive and was probably picked up by the new character, the survivalist. At least she's alive, for now.

Yes, I liked this episode a lot better than last week's.

I'll need to rewatch it when I've had more sleep.

I think KR's journal is real, but I agree that Liz might read some details out of context.

So, if Liz is not KR's Masha, who is, and have we met her? Was that ballerina girl?

eastcoast said...

Ya know, I told myself the other day, " I bet it ends with Kate being dragged off on that thing leaving us hanging until next week.............

Lake girl, #27,
Lara1, #32,

I dont think Kirk is her father for certain now. Red said "
"he needs a biological decendent" "a genietic donation from a woman HE Believes to be his long lost daughter.

Red is afraid of him finding out she isn't his and will kill her.

Tabasko said...

Tatiana #37: Yeah, I mean the confirmation of the affair we've suspected since S2 is finally there. I highly, highly doubt Kirk wants Liz back. He's not even trying at the moment. He wanted a virus.

So Red can be bio father but probably not legally her "father."

Tabasko said...

It was a nice moment to see Brimley! I do hope they move on from Agnes soon, as I have trouble enjoying those moments fully with a missing baby about.

Aram sure picked himself up a spunky gal! Poor Samar. I guess that's the soap part bubbling through.

lara1 said...

Tabs #42 - yeah that's a good way of putting it. He'd settle for the virus instead....

BBB #36 - LOL!

New character Elise?? I read in several places that we were supposed to see this new character beginning in this episode. Did I miss anything? Anyone see this?

I wonder if they scratched her at the last minute with the editing and she now appears next week?

Tabasko said...

Lara1: The only thing I can think of is Aram's girlfriend is Elise. Lol

lara1 said...

Hey did Aram's gal pal say something to him like, "is this how this works? " after asking him a question - or did I mis-hear that? Notice she got in on her own - she had a key?

lara1 said...

Tabs 45 - LOL! you may just be right!! ha ha

lara1 said...

I posted a fun article on the episode, from EW , on the linked in page.

Kodiak said...

Yeah lara1. Something like that. Did she have something she was.... using? That scene threw me off. I need to watch it again.

I thought thus one was the best of the first 3.

Colleen P. said...

Aram is quite the studmuffin!

Sorry lara1 - the record player was in a Jeep commercial - no clue why - I should have explained myself better.

Tabasko - good point about Kirk wanting the virus. If he can't get his daughter, then he'll settle for a disease.

Liz is going to hate Father's Day this year...

Tatiana said...

Elise - hmmm, maybe Aram took up life drawing and Elise is his personal model... hahaha! I hope he gets some scintillating scenes with her! We could use a little bit of fun for relief from all this intensity.

Cng Red - Yes! Brimley! Now that we've been taken through the emotional ringer, it's nice to see a familiar face ha!

Tabasko - Yes! Not only were we right about Red and Katerina with the affair, but we were also right about Kirk needing Liz and her daughter for medicinal purposes. Talk about a narcissist!

Eastcoast #41 - Exactly! He's had to hide Masha away from Constantin all these years. If Constantin ever found out Liz was not his daughter, he'd come after Red and his family and probalby kill Liz. On the other hand, since he believes Liz is his daughter, her life and the life of her daughter is in peril.

Kodiak - I'm with you and the thumbs up for this episode. I suppose they had to set up quite a bit to transition from Season 3. I LIKE this kind of Blacklist :-)

Well, lots to think about.

Oh, and that scene where Tom and Liz go to visit the official FBI fellow. I was so certain Tom was going to lose it and they'd have another set back. Instead Liz and Tom work in tandem bringing out the best in each other! LOL! Favorite. I really like them as a pair!

Honey West said...

I was sure they were going to go with hemophilia there for a minute. LOL!

Way back when, we figured there might have been an affair. Looks like we've been right all along (maybe, they could still be setting this up as a Kirk-fabricated story, except that Red seems to confirm parts of it), except I was sure that it was Red who had been assigned to Katarina, not the other way around. We'll have to see how this plays out.

I still say Kirk is looking for stem cells. And don't jump to the paternity conclusion that Red is really her father. They were very clever in writing the dialogue so that is still up in the air. "Masha is safe". Not necessarily because she is not Kirk's real daughter, but they pointed out a couple of times that the disease was passed from father to son. Masha being a girl makes her safe, even if Kirk really is her father. So we dangle a bit longer... Even though Red echoed what we have said, that Kirk "believes" she is his daughter.

But here's my Big Question of the Week - how does Liz suddenly remember how to read Russian? I guess that memory wipe didn't completely obliterate her mother tongue. But seriously, she could READ Russian as a four year old? Either she went to an advanced pre-school or else Katarina homeschooled her in reading pretty intensively. I think the finding of the journal was a little too convenient, just like the coffee can.

That must have been Elise in Aram's apartment at the end. I wonder if Aram met her in spin class?

Poor Mr. Kaplan! It does look like she was hit in the head, unless she hit her head when she hit the ground. Then to wake up and be face to face with a big dog. That's got to be that survivalist guy. Who else would be out there on BLM land in the supposed middle of nowhere with a toboggan? That was another thing from last week - this isolated pristine acre of land surrounded by 50+ thousand acres of BLM managed land was sure easy to drive to and only a fairly short walk from the car. That didn't really look like a logging road either. I know, I know, they had to get there somehow and driving was the only logical way to do it. Anyway, I thought they should have gone a little farther with - Liz: "Where's Mr. Kaplan?" Red: .

Previews didn't really tell much. Except it looked like Liz and Tom were having an argument.

Honey West said...

I forgot to say - yes! I just knew Red and Liz were having their little reunion by "Liz's grave".

Big Bad Bazzer said...

Only bad thing about this week's ep is NO DEIRDRE LOVEJOY....
or maybe that was her ending up at Aram's premises! Hmmm....
"Soap Opera Blacklist"

lara1 said...

The journal - OK i still don't know that its real. Would a super KGB spy keep a written detailed journal revealing that she's a spy who her target was and other stuff? And, from what Liz has read so far, Kirk comes off in a favorable, or at least, sympathetic light. Or maybe Kirk had parts of it re-written. (Heck, the BL team made it so someone else could.....?! haha)

Kirk comes across to me as too evil, manipulative and plain mean to give me the warm and fuzzy feelings of the journal. He's already blamed Liz twice, in Mato, for things he did and which caused pain to her and others (separation from agnes, shooting the fisherman). And he still has Agnes! And he won't swap her back for the virus - because he is the mean, spiteful man?

I guess I have seen Kirk reflected in too many mirrors, = illusion, for me, LOL! So Red may have been Katarina's target, or the other way around (I think its one or the other, though.)

Honey West #52 - LOL yes, reading Russian! I suppose she could have studied it at university or otherwise learned it. But - haha. When Katarina said that Masha was safe, she teared up. I think maybe it was because Masha was already "safe" with someone else. which leads me back to the coffee can. was that really at the summer palace, or moved. And did she bury it because she knew she was going to be separated from Masha? Maybe what Liz "remembered" was a visit there, once she had already been placed with Kaplan, or wherever she was; and not actually "living" there with katarina. still a lot of questions there.

hmmm lots to ponder. My conspiracy theorist has come out with the "journal". It could be real. But I still feel its not giving a fully true picture....LOL

lara1 said...

BBB#54 - did you catch Deirdre in "The Silver Bells" over the summer?

lara1 said...

LOL, that should be "American Gothic" in my #56. it was the silver bells murderer story but that was not the name of the show. I think I must be sleep deprived the past two days!

Cate said...

Honey West #52, lara1 #55: I wondered about Liz' newfound language skill also, but at 23:48 in the video you'll see Liz reading from Google Translate (russian on the left, english on the right).

I will get my money's worth out of this season's Amazon Video purchase.

Honey West said...

Okay, so now let us discuss the actual Blacklister Miles McGrath. I was thinking about him and the resemblance to what we are getting as having been the young Reddington. Highly intelligent, a sociopath, a master strategist, and very very arrogant. I wasn't surprised Red let him be captured by the FBI in the end. They could use someone like him. Who knows, maybe Red sees him as his possible future replacement as strategist? Anyway, all he lacks is Red's military and counter-intelligence training (plus three decades of field experience). He's already begun making money by funding criminal endeavors. Isn't that basically what Red does? At least on the surface. And it was interesting that it was McGrath who delivered the line about "The spy who didn't come in from the cold." "I hadn't heard that last one", Red said. Hmmmm. I somehow don't think that's the last we will see of Miles McGrath. Will MM eventually replace or succeed RR? :-)

Honey West said...

I didn't notice that, Cate #58, thanks for posting that! I guess we (I) forget that she might do something like that to translate it. The wonders of modern technology! LOL!

DZ731 said...

I think the journal is Katerina's fabricated writing aimed to get her real mark - Constantin - to believe she loved him. No real spy keeps a journal. The journal was part of her cover to protect herself and Reddington. It's another red herring designed by the writers to mislead Liz and the viewers about Katerina and Constantin's relationship.

Cate - Excellent catch on Liz using the Google Translate! I didn't notice that at all.

Honey West - I totally agree with you about the Masha is safe comment. The disease is passed on only to the males in the family.

I enjoyed seeing the ghostly Katerina again. Maybe she's the ghost from the wishing well.

I can't believe the only thing we got on Mr. Kaplan's plight beyond what was already shown in the promo was the dog. I couldn't tell much at all from that reflection in the water.

lara1 - Good observation from Mato that there were two of everything in Liz's room. Were there two girls as I have always thought?

Is Elise Aram's new love interest? Or is she someone sent by Kirk to spy on the task force and Liz? I loved Samar's reaction to thinking Aram was cooking for a date. She waited way too late to make her move. And what was up with the transfer email?

The blacklister and the mercenaries didn't do much for me. Since I don't believe the KR journal contains the truth, I didn't feel we got much new information at all. I would rank this a pretty middle of the road episode. Red's story wasn't even interesting this time. My favorite line was Red asking Tom and Liz if they were having a study date. I did like seeing how well Liz and Tom worked together to get the materials for their study date.

Big Bad Bazzer said...

No lara1 - I didn't catch Deirdre in "The Silver Bells" this summer. Perhaps you could enlighten me about that project?
Going thru my 2nd trip thru Miles McGrath -
1. Music on TBL needs slight improvement - wish they would have hired Ramin Jawani away from Person of Interest - some of the best original music on TV - ever. Plus the odd reliable old ditty tossed in.
2. Only purpose of giving Aram a girl-friend (Elise, is it?) is to put a spy in his 'house'. Perhaps Samar starts her own personal investigation - and finds Elise was assigned by Kirk or Red.
3. Hope no one takes offense, but after seeing Mr. Kaplan (aka Susan Bloomaert) struggle in interspersed snippets thru the ep - I could only think of her as Linda Hunt, Jr. (aka Hetty from NCIA: LA)

lara1 said...

So many interesting comments! DZ731 #61 - I like your idea that Katarina wrote the journal but fabricated the story or part of it to protect herself and Reddington (and maybe Masha). Maybe that's also the line she gave to Constantin to make the affair with Red appear to be more "understandable".

DZ731 #61 and BBB#62 - interesting idea that Elise could be a spy of sorts sent by Kirk to infiltrate the task force. Will have to look for clues next time!

Google translate, LOL! at least the writers picked up on how Liz could understand Russian!

BBB #62 - interesting comparison of Kate and Hettie. They are kind of similar, in a way, aren't they?

Honey West # 59 - interesting pick up on Miles and similarities to a perhaps young Reddington. And the talk about strategist/operative in that one scene.

lara1 said...

BBB #62 - "American Gothic" was a limited series run on CBS over the summer. I think it was about 12 episodes. Virginia Madsen was also in it. It is a cold case murder/thriller. it is about a (fictional) string of murders committed by the" Silver Bells Killer" in Boston that then goes quiet for 14 years. Due to an event that happens, the case is reopened and suspicion is on a prominent Boston family - and the family members begin to wonder whether one of the others was the silver bells murderer. Deirdre played the main detective on the reopened case.

I'm not sure it was unmissable television but I love murder mysteries and it was good enough to keep my interest.

Big Bad Bazzer said...

Thanks lara - I'll definitely watch if it pops up on re-run or dvd. I also notice a lot of the super guest stars from last season are either being kept in the hopper - or been told by s-runners their services no longer required.

And yeah, Hettie & Mr. Kaplan are very similar indeed. Even though Susan might be the oldest player in the main cast she's still at least a decade younger than Linda Hunt. Linda is also about a foot shorter than Ms. Lovejoy. In fact, Linda Hunt is reportedly only 4'6"

Kodiak said...

I am not sure the journal far fetched. I remember seeing one somewhere of a spy in Paris somewhere in a college class and I think a woman in the UK got arrested a few years back as a spy, maybe Russian, I can't recall, and had a personal diary, not so much of her espionage dealings, but of her personal stuff and an affair.

I would guess maybe it would be a way to get your feelings out with no one to tell them to.

In my view, the show is letting us in on a few pieces of info at this point that match up with the past, and our feelings of awhile ago. Taken as a whole, from the beginning, I can see the fire arguement now between Red and KR. That Red took Liz away from Russia to the US in the story he told her in Lady Ambrosia.

Kodiak said...

That's I'm not sure the journal IS far fetched. Whoops.

Plus, if it was totally outlandish, wouldn't Liz or least Tom think of that?

DZ731 said...

Kodiak - The journal would be a a good way to give Liz and us some info. I'm so jaded by all the misdirects now that I'm suspicious of everything. Another thing that makes me suspicious is that backwards R on the cover. We've seen mirrors as important symbols. What if what the contents are a mirror of the truth? The fire argument always made sense to me with Red as the man.

Honey West said...

DZ731 I think Liz wants so desperately to know about her past that she is vulnerable to being led on by a fabricated story purportedly written by her mother. She hangs onto just about any tidbit she gets from Red and now the stuff from Kirk. She also has a bad tendency to jump to conclusions from that information and then whoever she's talking to can just agree with her, whether she's anywhere near the truth or not. I hope we are actually getting some solid info in there from time to time. But the journal, to me, just seems a little too convenient. Liz's memories were tampered with in the past. How do we know that this isn't just a continuation of all that? To lead her to a place or along a path that was already written for her in the distant past. She's been told before about these strange fatherlike figures in her life "he wants something from you."

lara1 said...

DZ731 #68 - interesting comment on the "R" and the mirror image.

Honey West #69 - I find the journal rather convenient also. It could be real, it could be fabricated, it could be partly altered. Like DZ731 mentioned, I am suspicious for the same reasons.

Maybe Kirk intended to show the journal to Liz but then the FBI showed up. (still perplexing to me why Kirk thought that Red would never find them at the Summer Palace, when Red clearly knew where it was once he heard. Unless the original burned down or no longer existed and so Kirk assumed Red would therefore never have it on his radar as it didn't exist (another BL theme!). But that house was very old - unless Kirk had it moved there and reconstructed, LOL!)

Chompstick said...

There is a new blog post on the home page Just For Kodiak!

lara1 said...

BBB #65 - yes - have been a fan of Linda Hunt since I saw The Year of Living Dangerously. I can't remember whether she got the Oscar for that but I remember she was nominated. Great performance and film as well, IMO.

Chompstick # 71 - awwwwww. That is so cute, I can't even pick a favorite, all equally adorable pics and captions! :)

Eastcoast said...

My rambling thoughts on the diary and the Palace ,and...

Anything is possible and all ideas are on the table.


What if Kirk did not know about the diary and it was hidden in some place and the FBI are the ones that found it?

I was also wondering why he would take her there but then thought
What if Kirk never knew Red had been to the Palace?

If she was inserted into his life as a KGB agent and Kirk might have known this because the KGB looks at that sort of thing as just a job... kirk probably never thought she would take him to 'their' place.

Fake Diary or not, the stuff about the blood disease and affair seams to match up.

I also still think there was more children. Maybe more than we think.

Has anyone else ever noticed that Red speaks of his children in plurel?

In the Stewmaker and Madeline P.
"his children gone." in Stewmaker and when he spoke to Madeline he said 'they'd love the story daddy running out of gas.'

Just a tidbit About the fire and it being Christmas time.

Seeing the decorations in the store already made me think about how its celebrated at different times in some places.
Russia went through period of time when they did not celebrate the holiday. I think it was started again in '1989' by Russian's towards the end of the Cold War and it's celebrated on January 7th over there.

lara1 said...

hi Eastcoast #73 - I like your ramblings! interesting take on the palace. maybe Kirk never knew that Red had been there, or knew about it.

Yes, the blood disorder does line up - Kirk's story, Red's story, the "diary"

Interesting you mention Red speaking of "children" as plural. I forgot about that. Also in Takoma Partk house, he said he'd raised his family there. That to me implied more than one child. Bubble girl and ballerina girl? we don't know who they are but what I call "the dark music" seems to play when Red sees bubble girl, and again after Agnes is born and when he is lurking in the shadows watching the baptism. Something tragic really did happen, I feel. His expression turning from wistful to disturbed several times in the series.

DZ731 said...

I've been thinking about Mr. Kaplan's wound. It seems to be a cheek wound. Is this Red's twisted version of "turning the other cheek"? Even with the gun and his hand shaking, it seems unlikely he would miss this badly.

lara1 said...

DZ731 #75. What an interesting thought! Its strange to me that Red is right-handed(?) yet shot Kaplan on the other side. Other question is, does she have a metal pkate and if so did red aim to hit that side, or deliberately avoid it. Hmmm

Honey West said...

DZ731 and lara1, I imagine that Kate is being saved for a reason. How long she lasts or what that reason is, is anyone's guess. At least on our end; the writers know, I'm sure. :-) But I was thinking that eventually, and probably inevitably, she and Red will have another face to face. Maybe she does something to redeem herself? Who knows? But I was imagining a conversation going something like -
Red: How is it that you're still alive?
Kate: Because you missed.
Red: I NEVER miss.
Or something like that. The point being that I sort of agree that he hit where he was aiming. I am not so sure that his hand was shaking, not really, if you slow it down. I think maybe he was going to aim lower, for the usual heart shot, but changed his mind and aimed higher at the last split second. Red is just too good a shot to have missed what he was aiming at, no matter how rushed he was. He is too capable at distancing himself emotionally when he does these things. That's a key to his survival, after all.
Just some thoughts based on the conversation this morning. :-)

Honey West said...

I did just find and read the wsj recap and it has a still photo of Kate looking at her reflection in the water, shot from above and in front, that shows a pretty nasty head wound above her right ear. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, so maybe it looks worse than it is. It would have rung her bell, though, that's for sure. Maybe she will have temporary amnesia for awhile? She wouldn't be the first TV character.

lara1 said...

Honey West - interesting observations. Its kind of an odd shot. So on purpose or maybe Kate turned her head in that nano second she knew red was going to shoot. So her head slightly turned to face him on that side - on purpose? I guess we shall see.....

Also she was not walking. Maybe not even crawling. She's kind of dragging herself. Maybe just too wek - from blood loss?

lara1 said...

Further Mato observations

Cuckoo bird - in India, related to the goddess of desire and longing; in Japan symbolizes unrequited love. Not sure if they were trying to make that connection but its interesting.

In the liz's bedroom, there was a photo of " katarina" with a child with brown hair next to the "swing" photo So why doesnt Liz pick that up and look at it? As we've observed before the hair color differs in both photos. And is it the same girl? Hard to tell. Makes me think again though if there were 2 "katerinas" , the real one and the decoy, the decoy possibly being kaplan. ( thinking north by northwest again). If kaplan was somehow a "decoy" for real Katerina, then Red could probably have justified to himself lying to Liz when he told her the woman in the photo was her mother She was, for all intents and purposes, her" mother" in that instance. Just some ideas I'm kicking around.

But i think those two photos set directly next to each other on the mantle were placed there to give us a clue of some osrt. 2 girls, or 2 katerinas.

lara1 said...

Clue to red/kaplan last scene? Rewatching Miles Mcgrath. In the scene with miles and his operative where miles says the other operative bradley got his photo taken at the hotel, the operative says something like, i know him from Fallujah. "he's as loyal as they come. He'll never talk. "

Miles says something like, " you understand why i cant take that chance". And tosses a can at the operative who catches it, while onscreen they show the other operative bradley being shot in the head while jogging.

Miles then comments that the operative has very good relexes - caught the can - because he's a technician. Miles then goes on to describe himself as a strategist, assessing risk. The scene is over and they cut to kapan in the woods.

So - did kaplan indeed turn for a split second when she knew the shot was coming, thereby resulting in a less serious wound? Interesting

lara1 said...

Strange journal entry and construction plans for palace? On my re-watch tonight i noticed two odd things:

1. Journal - Liz reads this passage feom her mother's journal: "seeing Masha with Constantin makes me think of my own father. I wonder what he would say now about the choices i've made. ". She then goes on to talk about how she fell in love with a target she was meant to betray. That passage makes it sound like her fahter has passed away, or they are she is remembering him and wondering....also echoes dom's words about "choices made for both of them" - katerina and masha - by Red. . So just who is dom?

2. Blueprints - When liz takes the photos in the fbi agent's office, there are what looks.ike a set of blueprints. When i looked closer, they are actually construction plans for what looks like an addition to a house The drawinfg clearly marks "existing covered porch" and there are notes in the drawing by the dining room - "check exisitng beam if it is adequate for additional load". So were these plans for the summer palace? Did kirk build out that floor that incldes "liz's" room? I tried to see the date on the plans but too small on my tv. If anyone can manage to see a date that would be great. The plans, of course, could be for another house. Its not clear if the FBI took the plans from the palace or otherwise acquired them - the stuff on the agent's desk is a mixture of both.

Kodiak said...

DZ731 #68, I can understand that. I just sort of lean toward all the things that have been coming together as pieces might be actually fitting. You never know.

What, for you, have been the big misdirects?

Eastcoast #73, Eastcoast said..."What if Kirk did not know about the diary and it was hidden in some place and the FBI are the ones that found it?

I was also wondering why he would take her there but then thought
What if Kirk never knew Red had been to the Palace?"

Those are really interesting points.

Honey West #78, Thanks for that info about Mr. K. I don't know if it was my TV or what, but I has a hard time telling what that was. It looked like a decomposed skull at some points. I wasn't sure if they were making an allegory of some kind there or just unable to show her full wound on regular TV.

lara1 #82, Since we know Dom is alive, I took those passages in Katarina's diary as they were estranged or maybe he was still in Russia at that time and this was after KR followed someone, "Liz's father, the only man she ever truly loved" according to Red, to the US. Which of course, that person could still be Red, the woman KR followed.

DZ731 said...

Honey West - You may be right about what looks like Red's gun shaking is really him changing his mind on the target at the last minute. I don't have a way to slow down the scene.

lara1 - That's very interesting about the cuckoo bird symbolizing longing or unrequited love.

lara1 said...

The Journal. Puzzling over something else Liz reads and wonder whether there is a play on words here and whether Liz therefore jumps to the wrong conclusion, as she did in Berlin with Red's "daughter":

"Look at me-- in love with the man I was sent to seduce and betray. An American. Raymond wants me to run, take Masha and disappear with him, but how could I do that to her? "

In Season 3, we had Red telling Liz that her father was the only person that her mother ever truly loved. But I don't think though that this passage points to Red being her father, somehow its too simple. And running away with "Raymond" - K says, how could she do that to Masha? which makes me think that fleeing with Raymond would mean taking Masha from her father, not going with her father.

Katarina doean't actually say that the "American" she fell in love with was Raymond, only that Raymond wants them to flee together - though that's the obvious explanation. But - Unrequited love from Red, perhaps, and a desire to save/protect them? So - maybe Red didn't so much as take Masha, but offer both K and Masha protection? just random thoughts - could be another spin on the same story told differently.

Maybe not, but I keep thinking there is a third person involved somehow or some other twist. And the "American" could be Raymond. The writers might want to wrap it up simply. Just musing on other scenarios as things often aren't what they seem in this series. I guess we need more journal excerpts!

Honey West said...

Interesting thoughts on the blueprints, lara1 #82. Perhaps that "Masha's Room" and the parts of the house were added later? Or, rebuilt after the fire. I'll try to look at it later.

Here is the link to the article with the Kaplan photo, Kodiak #83.

Looks to me like her hair covers most of it.

I think you're right, lara1 #85 - those journal lines can be read more than one way. It "sounds" like a straightforward Red-has-affair-with-Katarina-who-was-assigned-to-spy-on-him-but-falls-for-him scenario. But on the other hand it could have been Constantin that she was sent to seduce and betray and the American, Raymond (her handler perhaps?), was telling her to run, because she'd been exposed and he'd kill her. It all depends on the actual punctuation, I guess. And I agree, that she meant that fleeing would take Masha away from her father. At lest, that's how it seems right now. And the American could even be someone else. But, most importantly, is this really KR's journal at all? If Kirk was using it to reinforce his side of the story, it could be a plant to support his claims. Or maybe it was planted to fool Kirk? Red seems to corroborate much of it, but to me, it seems too simple when Red has said it's complicated. This answer doesn't seem complicated enough. LOL!

DZ731 said...

Kodiak - There have been plenty of misdirects over the four seasons. The biggest ones for me were the picture of the girl Red got from the Stewmaker, Jolene Parker's info, what all the witnesses said about the Berlin plane crash, and killing Liz. Only time will tell if ballerina girl and the story Red told Madeleine Pratt were misdirects.

Honey West said...

I don't know if this will go directly to the Twitter post I mean for it to go to, but this goes right along with our comments. LOL!

Honey West said...

I would normally post this to the links page, but since it's a journal translation here it is for lara1.

lara1 said...

Red's 1972 Story - did anyone else think something was slightly off with his lawn cutting story. for me: According to the FBI file, Red would have been 12 in 1972 I thought that was just a bit too young to be "roto-tilling" front yards, but I guess its possible. Maybe its just me but I would have thought that something more like a 15 year old would do. But it does play right into my Red is not Red but is someone slightly older theory. LOL
Honey West - thanks for that link to the journal. yeah, I still question if its real, planted or a complete fabrication by Kirk or even Katarina.

Kodiak said...

DZ731 #87, LOL, I didn't mean there were no misdirects. In my view, the ones there have been have been in peripheral stories, not too many in what I think of as the "main" stories. Unsolved mysteries, yes.

Such as when it began to be insinuated Liz had some Russian background, or that Tom may have a connection to Red, or that Mr. Kaplan had background with Liz, and more..... many of these kinds of things bore out. So maybe this new information is back up to many of our older theories. I know many of you all were around then, but a lot goes back 2 years plus!

Maybe not, but if KR was assigned to Red, it would fall in with tons of hints we've had before, like Naomi-Carla being angry at Red, vaguely envious of Liz. Red having the photo of KR is his flat, etc.

I think the actual misdirection might be that there are 2 girls, when somehow it will all be Liz, lol.

lara1 said...

Some More Thoughts and Observations on 4.03

In my re-watch I picked up on some of our ongoing themes. Nothing too much really in this episode, which was pretty light on symbolism from what I could see.

Water References
The frogmen attack in the beginning.
Bradley was a Navy SEAL
The lead FBI agent investigating Agnes' abdutcion had several prints of sailing ships on the wall of his office.
Cooper: The upload of the photo was interrupted mid-stream.
Aram: We have six vehicles in floating box formation. (2 references)

Miles in London is staying at the "Sovereign Royale" hotel.

A line I really like from Tom: Turn-offs include "red"heads and long walks along the 'beach".

Miles' operative that Red talks to: is wearing a red plaid shirt and Red says to him, "burn the deal, help out an old friend", as the ceiling above them is bathed in deep red light.

My favorite image: when Red goes to pick up Kirk's call at the pay phone near the end, there is a poster on the wall behind the phone. It says "Stand up Showdown" and features Ali "Marx" vs Kate "Lord" - a vague reference maybe to two sides in the Russian revolution.

And lastly, at the very end when Liz says to Red, "you lost him", referring to Kirk, Red replies, "Yeah". So maybe Red's use of that word means not only that there is more to the story, but that's he's not particularly happy with it, or his role in it. As I think back to where else he has said "yeah", instead of "yes" that might be the case.

eastcoast said...

lara1, #90,

I did freeze frame the blue prints several times but cant make out any dates right now.

It is an interesting blueprint, I was looking to see if there was a tunnel anywhere.

Where I come from 12 is not to young at all!! Actually, not sure how old you are, but back then it was normal for us to learn things at a younger age and to be running farm equipment, tractors, roto-tilling the gardens before planting etc...
We had to bust the ground and turn it by manual labor so to speak before we got the tiller.
I could back up trucks and cars within a few inches of being hitched to trailers and boats younger than that.

Honey west, #86,

and lara1,

There are A few ways to interpet those lines out of her journal if it is her Journal.
We really cant believe a lot of what Kirk says because we know he is a liar.
It is a crazy thought to think it was the other way around and Red took her from there and brought her over here. If that is the case then maybe he had 2 houses going and Kate was taking care of Liz for him in one.

lara1 said...

east coast and Honey West - I found another notation on those pesky blueprints! I think it says "remove existing stairs for new floor." there's also annotations for "existing windows". so some major alterations happened (or are planned, if its for another house). And a tunnel yes that would be really interesting!

eastocoast - thanks for the education on roto-tilling. Clearly I had a city childhood, LOL! its always so good to get different perspectives on these things. At least we know we can add roto-tilling to Red's list of skills!

Honey West said...

LOL! Lara1, no problems growing up in the city. I grew up spending weekends on the farm. When I was about 12 I drove the hay truck while my dad and grandpa put the bales on the back. Granted my grandpa put the truck in compound low gear and all I had to do was steer it. But I still had to aim at the bales to scoop them up. Luckily I was a tall kid so I didn't have to sit on a phone book.

Rori said...

Hey all! Thought I would hop in for "old time's sake," as this is the final episode to discuss here :-(
My big question pertains to the botched slaying of Kate Kaplan! I didn't read last week's comments, but having just seen that episode before watching this one, I noted that Mr.K. gave a particularly graphic description of when she was injured in some way and Niko nursed her back to health. She said something like her head was busted wide open as she was splayed out on the street...So, as Lara1 mentions, did Red's bullet hit a plate & not kill her?
Lol to #75 DZ731 "... Is this Red's twisted version of "turning the other cheek"? Even with the gun and his hand shaking, it seems unlikely he would miss this badly."
The only reason I can imagine that he botched this killing was some kind of subconscious resistance to it. Absolutely the case that if RR wants someone dead, they die. But not only did he shoot her on the side that may have had a plate in it...he didn't check to make sure she was dead. I cannot help but think he was deeply ambivalent about killing her!
AND, per her words in S3 Ep2, she was NOT going to make it easy for him!

Big Bad Bazzer said...

immo the most intriguing TBL story-line is now Mr. Kaplan - with Agnes/Kirk a distant 2nd.
Sideplots like Samar's potential transfer appear muted.
Ressler has been appointed designated Joe-Boy!
Little restlessness in the Amar camp about his new relationship with nudey girl - and Samar hearing about it!
We need more Glen!

DZ731 said...

It's getting close to the time this site will close. Any ideas on where we could continue our discussions? I just joined a couple of Facebook groups: The Blacklist Clearing the Red Tape and The Blacklist Exposed. There seem to be some good discussions going on those two, although not quite as indepth as we've done here. The participants there seem respectful and I haven't seen any of the arguments or insults that have plagued other forums. By the way, my real name is Debra Zimmerman, which is how I'm identified on the Facebook groups.

lara1 said...

hi DZ731 - I have been thinking about this myself. It would be great to continue to share thoughts with you and all of the others - I will really miss the thoughtful insights of all of you! It won't be the same as this site :( which is a unique treasure :) but at least we could continue to share thoughts in some way.

I'm familiar with the Blacklist Exposed site and agree with you that it is respectful - I'm not sure whether Troy and Aaron oversee it in any way but they do participate from time to time. I know they don't like spoilers but I think they have modified this recently, though spoilers need to be placed somewhere separately. The other Facebook group you mentioned I don't know about but will check it out. I'm not on Facebook but I suppose I could join for this purpose. We won't have reference pages etc and it won't be as fun, but we could at least post views and comments on the episodes.

The only other option is an email group where we could communicate informally and of course that would be great but it does mean that we would not benefit from others' public insight into our ideas.

Anyone else have any thoughts or preferences?

lara1 said...

BBB #97 - For me the Red/Kaplan story line is also more interesting than the Agnes/Kirk thing right now. Maybe because we know what Kirk's plan is and why he wants Agnes (or we think we know, LOL!). Also to me, Kirk is not as compelling or dangerous a character as say Berlin was - but then again he was a bit twisted by all of his pent up anger and lust for revenge. The Kaplan thing right now is much more mysterious because we don't know much about her, nor what happened and why (i.e. did Red intentionally miss) nor any firm ideas of what comes next.

eastcoast said...

Just a quick note before I forget it again...

Looked to me like Kirk is using the Artax group again.
They used the term 'Team Leader' like they did before.
I figure that is how he knew that Red would be at the phone booth.
That means he is still a step ahead for the moment.

lara1 #94,

I thought you may have been a city child. All walks of life here to learn from.

Honey west,95, I am sure you enjoyed driving the hay truck!

lara1 said...

eastcoast #101 - very good observation on Halcyon. I wondered that for a split second then thought it must have been another surveillance type group helping Miles with his power grid shut down! - they cleverly did not show faces.

Then I thought Kirk knew that Red had the sample because Red and Dembe left Miles with his cellphone, I could not tell for sure. I thought maybe Red getting careless again.

I'm not sure I trusted Scottie to be honest - she gave Red a strange side glance at one point in their conversations when planning the Diaz caper. Might be payback to Kirk for messing it up the first time around.

OF course if Halcyon is now tracking Red - that leaves open a big question as to whether they knew about Kaplan. Someone else may have suggested that last week......

Well those are my thoughts anyway.!

lara1 said...

So I was thinking, the Agnes plot seems a bit too predictable for this show and maybe all is not what it seems. The storyline right now is that both liz and agnes are in danger because either 1) kirk believes them to be genetic matches but they are not and Kirk will do harm to them when he finds out that they are not or 2) they are genetic matches in which case they will still come to harm as Kirk will use them for his somewhat experimental therapy.

What if there is a real twist, like Agnes turn out to be a match and Liz isn't? If you remember Season 3, there seemed to be a lot of emphasis on Agnes' vitals. The scene with Tom and the doctor filling out the background/parent history questionnaire to screen Agnes; the doctor calling Tom with the test results; the scene with Stadler and Mato where Mato seems to get the full medical records for Agnes. That's a lot of Agnes medical records scenes.

So wild theory (you know how I love my wild theories, LOL!!) - what if Agnes is a match through the Tom connection? And even wilder, what is Tom is actually Constantin's son - and Red found out about this, which is why he hates Tom and became so intent on trying to keep Liz and Tom apart? Of course this would mean that Red did not know when he hired Tom (I doubt he would have hired him) and unfortunately would mean also that Tom presumably would in time develop the same illness that Kirk has. Kirk of course doesn't know this or he would not be trying to kill Tom, I don't think. But who knows, he's not exactly cuddly towards his presumed daughter! Or maybe Tom is otherwise genetically related, just not his son.

Maybe not, but I think some sort of twist will happen. (And I did have to get in one more wild theory, LOL!!) Maybe we will get a clue on Thursday - looks like Kirk will be talking to his medical team at some point.

DZ731 said...

This whole parentage thing has to involve a twist. I'm not so sure Raymond was the American that Katarina was supposed to seduce and betray. When I think back to Cape May, I don't recall any signs of romance between the two. They worked well together, so I can buy they were co-workers.

Why doesn't Kirk already know if Liz's blood is a match? Solomon got a sample of her blood after the car accident. Mato got Agnes's medical records back in Season 3, so he should know about her too. I had considered that Agnes might be a match somehow on Tom's side.

Only time will tell.

Iowa Watcher said...

Stay tuned: Tatiana might be helping out, and one page might be left open. I'll be interested to see the final verdict on that. (See the original message thread on the closing)

lara1 said...

DZ731 #104 - the other thing I was thinking,I'm not sure that Liz being a bone marrow or similar donor is what Red has kept from her all these years, killed Sam, etc to keep her from knowing. I do think that she is in danger now, but I'm starting to think that this is not the "grave danger" that would come of knowing the identity of her father - I feel like there is still a super big bad out there. Like someone who will kill her just because of who she is. Just an idea - I could be wrong.

Big Bad Bazzer said...

Hopefully its NOT revealed that Glen & Mr. Kaplan are Lizzie's parents! lol

Iowa Watcher said...


eastcoast said...

lara1, #103,

I thought all that stuff with the baby was because she was born premature. Red even mentioned it to Dom and told him she was expected to be fine.

Dz, #104,

I keep thinking there could be a big twist, or they are just trying to make us think that. Who knows? It is probably something more simple right in front of our face! lol

eastcoast said...


Big Bad Bazzer said...

Obviously I'm joking about Glen & Mr. Kaplan - but I do believe more fans are concerned about Kate's future than what happens with Captain Kirk, Baby Bloodlines & Lipstick Liz

lara1 said...

eastcoast #109 - yes that's a good point about the baby medicals. I guess we'll see.

Part of me just doesn't believe that all that Red has done all of these years to protect Liz is to keep her from donating blood or bone marrow! And Red never tells the whole, full truth. He only volunteered what he knew about Konstantin's blood disease after Liz started to talk about it, and I can't help feeling that there is more, that isn't the full truth. Kirk seems too bland. I think there's some nasty stuff to be revealed. Can't wait for episode 4.

I hope I will hear from you in the future - I put my email address on the home page under Chompstick's latest posting. Honey West, Tatiana, deadskie13, Colleen P., DZ731, Iowa Watcher, Lake Girl, BBB, Rori , Kodiak- hope to hear from you - and anyone I inadvertently left out.

Big Bad Bazzer said...

lara 1 - its still early in the season - so Kirk and Uncle Red can do a bit of tango, switch to rhumba and end up with a spot on square dance! Should I do the call? lol
Kirk also inflicted Red with one of Red's rare losses, caused a major riff in the Reddington organization (especially with Kolonel Kaplan) and really has Red out of sorts!
Kinda fun, I'd say - but never expect early closure! Cuz then it wouldn't be called TV drama!

lara1 said...

BBB #13 - good points. Kirk seems to have got ahead of Red since season 3. And as some others have noted, he might just be driving Red crazy. So I suppose for now he is the "better" man.

lara1 said...

Just some final thoughts and hope to see you all on The Blacklist Refugees site Tabs created (in Tabs post on home page for those who haven't seen it)

The Journal
"Look at me-- in love with the man I was sent to seduce and betray. An American. Raymond wants me to run, take Masha and disappear with him, but how could I do that to her? "

Still not convinced that "the American" is Red. It could be. The wording of those two sentences is a bit ambiguous. But Red did want her to "disappear" with him. It looks like he was trying to protect her, regardless of whether or not they had a romantic relationship. And, back then, it seems like Red already had the means to allow them to "disappear". Hmmmm And both Red and K did both disappear after the fire......

I think back to Red and Dom. If Red isn't the American and/or he and K did not have an affair, then what? Unrequited love, or a close bond - did Red partially grow up in that household?

Honey West posted the other day some discussion of the journal that was posted elsewhere. Further on in the journal, K says that only to Raymond will she tell the truth, be honest - something like that. So whatever their relationship she knew him well enough to trust him and be honest with him - at least up to that point. Food for thought. If the Journal is real, LOL

Colleen P. said...

Hi Lara1 - thanks for the shout out :)

I just registered on Refugees and am very grateful for it! Haven't had as much time to post lately, but still read everyone's posts with great interest. What a great bunch of folks are on this site - very excited that we can all still keep in touch :)

lara1 said...

OK one more thing that is bothering me - the two photos in Liz's "bedroom".. In the swing photo, Liz's "mother" is blond. In season 3, Red is taken aback when Liz dies her hair blond. In the fire memories, it looks like the "mother figure" in the childs drawing is blond (but not necessarily).

Why then does Liz start to remember her "mother" as someone with redd=ish hair? Yet little Liz in that palace memory clearly calls Katerina "Mommy". So now I'm starting to ponder the two girl/swap theory again. Suppose Liz is not the real Masha and there was a swap (and if so what happened to real Masha). And does that impact the "you would not let me see her" and "her name is Elizabeth!" spoken by the "man" in the fire night conversation. And of course whose daughter then Liz really is and why did they have to "hide" "real" Masha. LOL. Just throwing it out there for others to think about.....for me something does not add up about those photos but can't figure it out.....

At the end of Drexel in Season 3, wasn't there a group that got hold of what the IT guys had - the surveillance tool? Wasn't there a redhead woman who seemed to be heading a group sequestered somewhere, looking at similar surveillance? I think that was not explained. May not be related at all but that scene has stuck in my mind since.

Chompstick said...

And that's all she wrote, folks. :)