The Cranky Curmudgeon Page - Negativity Belongs Here!

The Blacklist Support Group is known for being the positive, friendly Blacklist discussion site on the internet. I created it because I did not enjoy encountering the pessimism and even hostility on other sites. Many, many of you have said the same thing when you introduced yourselves here, and I think we are all extraordinarily proud of the home we have created.

Of course, I don't want to be the happy police and limit our participants' ability to voice their true opinions, so I am proposing The Cranky Curmudgeon Page as the place to grouse. Frankly, I like to commiserate with others and complain sometimes, too, but when I read back over the most recent discussion page, I realized that this week we have become the very thing we don't want to be. I feel 100% sure that none of you want your discussion home that way either. Negativity breeds negativity; I want to catch it before it spirals too far.

To be clear, I have no desire to censor the tone of your comments, I just want to redirect those comments to this page.  Thanks ~ Chompstick

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322 comments:

1 – 200 of 322   Newer›   Newest»
Chompstick said...

Looking at those pictures, maybe this should be called The Furrowed Brow page.

Tabasko said...

Haha! Well, at least we have proof they are all avoiding Botox.


Mary said...

Chompstick...I understand your thinking in setting this thread up. I need a place I can go and say why couldn't they just answer one question this week instead of the frustration of more questions. Venting is good.

I shall now head over to the BLSGCC souvenir shop and pick up a coffee mug, a t shirt and baseball cap.

Chompstick said...

Thanks, Mary. Don't forget to grab one of the new Aram bobble heads.

Harry said...

Chompstick #6: I put this long-winded, three-part diatribe on the Cranky Page because:
(a) I teed off on the writers for insensitivity to the realities of domestic violence and dumbing down their female lead; I don't think I crossed the boundaries into political debate, but in an abundance of caution put my comments here in case anyone would be offended;
(b) I wanted to make it clear I was not criticizing another poster by referring to her comments, but rather, to illustrate that the writers ' contrivances included a misplaced effort to evoke sympathy for a character while minimizing or glossing over his despicable acts.
(c) I wanted to explain I wasn't "Tom-bashing", but upset over the dumbing-down of Liz.
(d) In my opinion, the Tom-Red contrivance could have a backwards and forwards "butterfly effect" on all past and future episodes, ie the show will "violate its own history" [J Biltz] in innumerable ways, and create future conondrums that cannot be resolved without Doc Brown's time-traving DeLorean.
(e) I've been cranky ever since I watched The Major. I was disappointed that such a slap-dash episode followed such a good one. .
(f) Due to the prolixity of my three-part diatribe, I didn't want to crowd out discourse on the episode page.
(g) I was concerned that a first-time poster or viewer who had just seen the episode might mistakenly assume The Major is representative of all BL episodes, instead of an unfortunate anomaly.
(h) Also, I've often commended the BL for consistently showcasing talented, experienced actresses and featuring witty quips and soliloquys, and wouldn't want anyone to conclude from my remarks about this one episode that the BL is anti-feminist or sloppily written.
(I) Although I inadvertently deleted much of what I originally wrote (which included lots of disclaimers and qualifiers), whatever I replaced it with was long enough (and not proof-read) such that someone might find a phrase or sentence offensive if I didn't choose my words carefully enough.
(j) Because of personal experience and philosophy, some of the themes (and miscues) in The Major struck a nerve with me. Others might not share my sensitivities.
(k) For what it's worth, the same way the internet was abuzz with enthusiasm last week after the T Earl King episode (especially the Red-Liz scenes), message boards after this week's episode were filled with many of the same grievances in the comments posted on BSG.

In any event, I doubt l'll ever post a multi-part manifesto again, but if you want to move my comments, I will defer to your judgment.


Chompstick said...

Several of Harry's and Tabasko's comments were moved in their entirety to The Major Discussion Page, beginning with #177. Their posts were not curmudgeonly, but I do thank both of them for their consideration of others.

Marie said...

Chomps-
I LOVE the Hudson photo!
Miss him/her..........
(Nothing negative.)

Chompstick said...

I know!! He's so precious. Tabasko was right when she said no one will be able to stay cranky once they see this picture.

Harry said...

[Caution: Spoilers about other TV shows]
There seems to be a consensus that Tom has overstayed his welcome, but the oblivious showrunners are too blinded by their mancrush to see it, and insist on concocting ridiculous plot twists to keep him on the show. There's also lots of suspicion that Tom was supposed to die when Liz shot him, but the showrunners chickened out and brought him back by resorting to a lame ex post facto rescue scene. The story line, and Liz's maturation, would've proceeded in a more realistic and interesting fashion had Tom died when she shot him in the gut three times. Not even 50 Cent could've survived such grievous close-range bullet wounds.

The showrunners ought to have the confidence that the series can survive, and even thrive, after a major character is killed off. After all, Game of Thrones is the most popular TV show in the world in spite of, or because of, the shocking or unexpected deaths of Ned Stark, Khal Drogo, Robb, Catelyn, Oberyn, Lysa, Tywin, and Joffrey. (No, I do not believe The Hound is dead.)

A related grievance about the BL: Except for the expected and well-deserved deaths of Blacklisters and their cronies, the showrunners have conspicuously killed off a disproportionate number of female "good guy" recurring characters, e.g.:
1. Luli
2. Meera
3. Audrey (Ressler's love)
I haven't counted, but I suspect there are many more female than male innocent victims of homicidal Blacklisters.
All of this smacks of misogyny.

For the sake of the credibility and consistency of the show itself, it 's time to terminate Tom.

Chompstick said...

Re female deaths: this is something I've noticed (and am annoyed by) also. Another thing, what percentage of female characters have long RED/dark hair?

On the General Discussion Page page 1, #51 begins a conversation from last spring on the female deaths. I think it was discussed somewhere else, too, but I'm not sure where.

Naike had fantastic comments on the General page, really everywhere. There are great ones on the Good Guys Page which is linked on the Secondary Characters page.

Harry said...

Chompstick #10: (1) I'll check out those other sections.
(2) Although Jolene wasn't a "good guy", Rachel Brosnahan is an up and coming young actress. It's a shame they didn't keep her on. Apparently, she made a big splash in "House of Cards", though I've never seen that show. She's also going to star in "The Dovekeepers" on CBS (I think) at the end of this month. Not sure if it's a mini-series or TV movie. It's based on some best seller about the siege of Mosada. She plays one of the three heroines.
Which I guess brings me to my next question: If the BL can kill off Jolene, who appeared to be so important early on, what's the problem with saying "So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, adieu" to Tom?

Harry said...

Chompstick: I just read through #51-#73 on the General Discusdion page. It's interesting that others have independently had the same observations as I did about the glaringly disproportionate number of female deaths. Maybe they do it for shock value? (It's distressing that they make it a point that they're mothers of young children, eg Meera , or a pregnant woman eg Audrey.) I can't be overly critical since they do a pretty good job of hiring good female guest stars. I just have to wonder why recurring female characters have such a short life expectancy.

Tabasko said...

#9-#13: The deaths have been pretty hard to ignore. I really like Samar's character, It seems like her role has been diminishing little by little.

There have been groups of kidnapped young girls or women at least three times I can think of. (Freelancer, Cypress Agency, Kenyon Family) Disturbing.

There have been a few seriously deranged dads lately (Kenyon again, Kings), but thee is something a bit off about how the show comes across with females as a whole.

Tabasko said...

#13 add'l: And since I agree the Tom character has passed the expiration date, I would much rather see the time devoted to this, all of this Tom-Liz, Liz-Harbormaster, Red-Tom business be devoted to furthering almost any other stories involving Red's excellent adventures (as forementioned by others elsewhere), Liz and Red, or story time devoted to Ressler, Aram, Samar, Cooper, etc.

Post above should read 9-12 not 9-13.

Harry said...

Tabasko #13: Samar Navabi got to shine in "The Scimitar." I thought she was great, going from seductress to assassin to avenging angel. I liked it when Red gave her the Scimitar as a gift, with the parting words "Don't do anything I wouldn't do." Finally, instead of weaseling out or being indecisive about whether to turn in the bad guy, Samar snuffed him. (Mossad don't mess around...)

Her scenes with Aram are so cute. She's all full of confidence, and he's so flustered around her. Let the two of them have their own episode where they go out in the field together instead of Donald "Where Are My Pills?" Ressler and Elizabeth "I Think I'll Chase Bad Guys Alone in the Dark with No Backup and Get Conked on the Head" Keen. Samar is one tough cookie -- as she proved in Monarch Douglas Bank when she mowed down a squad of incoming thugs to allow Ressler, Liz and Katja to escape. (Which begs the question: Since Ressler and Liz have a penchant for getting kidnapped and taken hostage within five minutes of encountering the bad guys, why isn't Samar sent to accompany them on every outing?)

She's such a good, self-confident, kickass character. It makes little sense that she's been relegated to a minute or two of screen time lately.

Harry said...

New List? Post-Concussion Syndrome Keen
I'm thinking of compiling a list of all the incidents in which Liz has been rendered unconscious. Feel free to add and update. In no particular order:
1. Whacked on the head with metal shovel by Deer Huntresss.
2. Knocked out by SUV rollover caused by flash-bomb wielding motorcyclist in The Scimitar.
3. Drugged by Lorca for delivery to The Stewmaker.
4. Pistol-whipped on the noggin by Beck's cohort in The Front.
5. Punched out by her "loving" husband when she discovered his secret hideout.
6. ? Asleep or unconscious because of plague infection in The Front?

To be continued....

Note. She should not be allowed to leave the Post Office without wearing an NFL-approved helmet.

Tabasko said...

#16 Harry: LOL.

7. Knocked out by guy she had earlier knocked out in Anslo Garrick.

Chompstick said...

Tripping over Hudson's leash and falling down her front steps where she suffered a blackout and orbital skull fracture from her head slamming into a parking meter post.

Chompstick said...

Oh wait, that could have happened - no one ever walked poor Hudson. In fact, he peed on the floor in the pilot because Liz had to get coffee before attending to her dependent's basic needs.

Tabasko said...

#18, 19 LOL, again! Poor Hudson. That was seriously bad for his self-esteem.

I think someday Liz will get together with Ressler. It will be like Drew Barrymore's character in "50 First Dates" and neither one will be abke to remember they started dating due to all the head injuries.

Chompstick said...

Hahaha!!

Marie said...

They showed more new previews to tonight's episode. I felt like I saw the whole thing. Not good.
Yeah, I am bitching here.

Chompstick said...

Is that on NBC's site, Marie?

Chompstick said...

Oh wow. I just went to NBC and there's a 4 minute preview, so I assume that's the one you're talking about. I'm definitely not going to watch that. I can see why you felt you saw too much.

Harry said...

Tom Keen is to The Blacklist as Jar Jar Binks was to Star Wars.

Tabasko said...

I'm tempted to watch it, but I'm going to skip it then.

Also skipping the one next to it, 11 Reasons Why Tom Keen is a Badass."

I'm all out of anti-vomit remedies at the moment.

Harry said...

Tabasko 26: "11 Reasons Why Tom Keen is a Badass"? Seriously? Those folks must be deluded. I don't even want to look at it. I'd be so incensed I'd probably spend the next five hours rebutting each one.
Now I'm nauseous.

Tabasko said...

Harry #25, 27: Ha!! I would advise you not even open the NBC page.

If this is how they're going to handle Tom, I hope he is just like Jar Jar Binks and disappears never to be seen again.

Harry said...

3/20/15 - Unexplained Pepper Bottle Key Clock: 151 days and counting.
Based on an air date of 10/20/14 for "The Front", 151 days have now passed with no mention, let alone any explanation, for the Pepper Bottle Key.


PS Chompstick - I posted this on the Cranky page because I didn't want to put s damper on all the enthusiasm over in the episode section.

Tabasko said...

Poor missing Pepper Bottle Key! Thank you for the update!

I wonder if it has a nice bottle to live in now. Is it in Red's pocket all this time?

Marie said...

Am I the only one who likes Tom?
Would make for a boring series if he wasn't on it at all. Just think about it.

Team Tom

Chompstick said...

I go back and forth, Marie. I liked him last night, when he showed vulnerability and for once did the right thing. I like watching him when it's completely unrelated to Liz, like the bar scene when he took on two guys. I can't stand him when he's manipulating Liz, deceiving her, and abusing her. I find that Tom abhorrent and can barely watch it. And I couldn't stand him as the dweeb school teacher. Wishy washy doesn't appeal to me. (Certainly not the way a toned six pack does!)

Harry, once I get the Unexplained Objects page up and running, you can post all the Pepper bottle comments you want over there. Unfortunately real life keeps getting in my way.

Charmed said...

Marie, It would be okay if you were the only person who did like Tom, but you are not. For the most part I like Tom. He has a multi-faceted role on the BL others actors would envy.

I agree with Chompstick. I didn't like the hateful, vengeful, hurtful husband he became with Liz. But as a fighter and spy with everyone else, oh yeah!

fangirl said...

ugh sooooo sick of Ryan Eggold and even more sick of Tom Keen.

James Spader/Red Reddington is the star of this show. If any of the other characters were deleted, yeah, there would be a ripple of impact, as there will be when Cooper's character dies.

But even though Cooper is an important character -- like Liz, Ressler, Aram, whatever -- he's not the central character.

Red is the central character. As long as he continues to be the central character, the show, as we know it, will continue to be watchable.

But what if they've decided to evolve Tom into the central character? This show will devolve into unwatchable drivel.

To quote the dear departed harbormaster, "I have a sinking feeling."

fangirl said...

PS! My anti-Tom diatribe is not directed at any of you dear people here! It's not a reply to anyone's post, nor an insult to anyone's pro-Tom stance, truly.

I'm just thinking back over the last 2 episodes and feeling both cranky and curmudgeonly. Not at any of you. Only at the show's powers that be. More and more screen time for Tom means less and less screen time for Red. I don't want to do that math.

Charmed said...

Fangirl, I know your post was not directed at anyone here. We have posted together for many, many moons, and I've always known how you felt about Ryan/Tom and James/Red. You're right, if they changed the ratio of screen time of Red and Tom, it won't be the show we know and love.

But surely Cooper won't die now that Connolly plans to be #1 and sink his claws in to Cooper, his #2.

Tabasko said...

#34 fangirl: Totally agree. It has bothered me to no end that the marketing by NBC has been all about Tom Keen lately.

SpaderIsHot said...

I as well am annoyed by the increased screen time for Tom. I don't care about him. I want to see Red and have questions answered, which is never what happens. lol. But I still want to SEE him interacting with Lizzie. I also am annoyed about the fact that Dembe told him to tell her everything, and he really didn't. I need more information! Of course, that's what makes the show the show. However, the questions need to have answers sometimes otherwise it's like a stupid soap opera that takes years to get to the bottom of things. Seeing the preview for next week, I feel annoyed that things seem like they are going back to "normal." After everything that happened this week, you would think that conversations would continue.

fangirl said...

Thank you dear Charmed! Yes that Connolly guy definitely is up to no good!

Tabasko and SIH, I totally agree.

PS to SIH any mention of anything that was said or shown in previews, trailers, etc. must be confined to the Spoilers Page here. That's because some fans (including me) don't want to read anything that might possibly be a spoiler.

Anti-spoiler fanatics like me don't want to know anything that's going to happen until we're watching it unfold during the episode. That's why they're called spoilers -- because they spoil the surprise.

I'm constantly whining about it! lol Spoilers make me even crankier and more curmudgeonly than Tom Keen!

Thanks for understanding.

Essie said...

Marie #31: You're not alone. I like Tom too. Although I'm beginning to see him as more dangerous than I ever thought before. I still like him though. I definitely think he's kept the 2nd half of season 2 from getting in a boring rut. I suspect his screen time will soon be somewhat diminished though, and we'll get back to normal with more Red /Liz time in season 3. I hope for this show to have many seasons, so I don't mind watching the characters take turns in the spotlight. In order to see the big picture as a whole, you have to focus on one puzzle piece at a time. :)

Fan girl #39 I'm glad in not alone in the " I hate spoilers" camp. I love not knowing anything that's going to happen until I'm watching it. The thrill, suspense, and the challenge to figure every thing out is why I love this show.

Harry said...

Fangirl 34, Tabasko 37, etc. : My anti-Tom invectives and epithets are strewn across the discussion pages, so I won't repeat them here. I agree with with everything you've said. I just wanted to add that it wouldn't be so bad if they kept Tom halfway around the world on silly assassination assignments. It's when he interacts with Liz or Red or mucks up their back stories that he drags down the show.

That's all for now. Just came here to unload a little negativity before going over to the episode discussion page.

Harry said...

Chompstick: I enlarged the picture of Hudson on this page and looked at if again closely. I wasn't kidding when I previously wrote that Hudson is one of the models in the reCAPTCHA animal selection array. It's uncanine. I mean uncanny.

Harry said...

Chompstick: Not a complaint. Just a technical question. Not a big deal. Not urgent. I wasn't sure where this belonged, so I put it here on the Cranky Page. I was hoping you might have some tips to avoid some recurring technical problems that are probably my fault: 1. I use my iPhone to post. Sometimes while I'm typing a Comment. I'll switch screens (minimize BSG comment page and open another site) to review or excerpt Springfield transcripts, or to Google a name or term to verify something. Usually it's not a problem, and I'm able to switch back to my Comment and resume typing. However, sometimes I'll switch back and all the text I've typed has disappeared; the comment box is empty. Do you know if there's a time limit or something, after which a draft comment will disappear? Usually I've encountered this problem after I'm almost finished with a relatively lengthy comment, which makes it all the more frustrating. 2. I've found that the reCAPTCHA verification can on ...

JBiltz said...

I did not quit posting because of the creation of this page. I did not even watch the last episode until Sunday. I had a crisis of faith in the writing staff and their intent to actually regard their history as history. In a show in its second season to be doing this means I don't see a point in trying to make sense or predict anything that is going on or has gone on. Unfortunately, that was the main reason I was participating in this group and over on the WSJ. So, I think I am done here. Not setting this in stone or anything but like I said, I don't see a point to it.

Chompstick said...

I understand your frustration; I think it's something we all struggle with at different times. Thanks for stopping in to let us know, and come back anytime.

Iowa Watcher said...

I, too, was annoyed with Tom driving Liz around in a Mustang. I understand about having to fund the show, but it seems like previous story arcs are being destroyed because Tom was inserted into the spotlight, maybe in an attempt to raise the Thursday night ratings. Yes, I think it was a mistake to take the show from its Monday slot after "The Voice."

There is still some good writing on the show, but overall quality is worse this season and seems guilded more by politics (sponsors, increasing ratings) than good storytelling.

I think it can be salvaged but they've got to do something soon.

Tabasko said...

#46 IW: I have some frustrations on that, too. The way Tom's character has been approached has changed and I'm fine with, even interested in, some of it.

Not fine with just ignoring the past. Also, I've been a fair amount disappointed with all of the Tom Keen-centered marketing NBC has been doing.

Tom can be AN interesting part of the show, but to me he's not THE interesting part of tbe show. That's Red.

And other characters as well need their time and I think are deserving of some hype.

I haven't watched the episode yet, though.

Chompstick said...

Iowa, have you read this opinion piece on ScreenRant.com? The author addresses the problems the writers/producers are creating for themselves, and the viewers, by not revealing all the secrets they have created (and changed). They need to decide if they want to be a procedural or not and adjust the show as such. It's very interesting.

Chompstick said...

Maybe all the Tom focus is a stalling technique so they can stretch the Daddy issue into a cliff-hanger.

So Tabasko, what tourist trap are you visiting today? Gator Land?

Harry said...

Chompstick 48: Tom is the root of all problems. Forcing him back into the plot has destroyed the BL universe's established history, and even worse, seems to have cost us JBiltz.

Tabasko said...

Maybe, Chomps. I don't mind it being a slow reveal now. The episodes have been so good lately. Just want the show to do well and stay on more than anything else.

Today is lounge by the condo pool day and I'm charging up my IPad to finally watch this thing.

Gatorland can wait, haha!

fangirl said...

I didn't manage to follow through on the discussion about last week's episode. But I was glad to read that there's an anti-Tom club here! :)

Re disillusionment with the show and inability to trust the show's powers that be + writers -- I totally sympathise! It's still fun to see Spader in action, wondering how it's all going to turn out in the end. And it's still fun to hang out here with our fellow fans.

It's cool of Chomps to provide this cranky forum. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it's starting to kinda grow on me. For stuff that's too negative to post here, could we do the anti-Tom club via email?

If it's already set up, please add me: fangirlzerofour at gmail. Thanks!

Harry said...

Fangirl 52: But you've got to vote in the Tom poll. Some Tomophiles are stuffing the ballot box!

Iowa Watcher said...

Chomps, thanks for the link. It's on my "to read list" when I get some downtime.

Looking forward to your comments, Tabasko. That's got to be frustrating . . . I was on the road during one of the better story arcs in the "X-Files" and was annoyed that I couldn't watch it.

Chompstick said...

#53 - Harry, haha! Even I, creator of said poll, can't vote more than once. I tried! Just to see if it would work. ;) You know I can't since I'm a Team Tom Teeter-Totter and we came in last place!

Fangirl - I had a feeling you'd be volunteering as Harry's vice president.

Tabasko - I don't know where you posted about Seinfeld's parents but the image had me in stitches. The one where Jerry and Elaine visited his parents and Elaine had to sleep on the sofa bed was great. I've been watching reruns a lot lately. Seinfeld was one of a kind.

I really should've put this in Off Topic but .....

Tabasko said...

#54 Iowa Watcher: I was a little put out, thanks! Oh, yeah, X-Files was a giant deal for me, too.

#55 Chompstick: Yep, hahaha! So much of Seinfeld is only a step or two away from reality, mine anyway. Comic genius work.

Harry said...

For all those who think Tom aka Mr HGH +Anabolic Steroids adds so much to the show, imagine a BL spinoff called "The Advrntures of Tom Keen." How many episodes do you think it'd be on the air before it's cancelled? My guess is 4 max.

Harry said...

#57 cont. The BL IS Red/JS. Without him, there is no show. My biggest fear is that after "Avengers: Age of a Ultron" JS will be in such great demand that the BL won't be able to afford him anymore; though if they're smart they'll make him the highest paid actor on TV.

Chompstick said...

Does anyone know how much he makes?

Laocoon said...

I have no idea how much JS makes on this, but since he became an executive producer this season that's his ticket to making money. If it's a successful ongoing franchise (think NCIS as an example), then the upside is huge (think Mark Harmon).

So much depends on where this goes and what JS wants to do. He may not want the grind of a franchise type series, but making money gives anyone more options.

Tabasko said...

#59 Chompstick: I've read JS makes 125,000 an episode.

Chompstick said...

That seems low, doesn't it? I just read this TV Guide article of TV actor salaries, for comparison.

Tabasko said...

Yeah, I thought so, too. Multiplied by 22 episodes, it sounds ok. But per it seems low comparatively.

Harry said...

#59-63: the three "stars" of The Big Bang Theory make an obscene amount per half-hour episode: $1 million per episode. JS deserves more.

Harry said...

I've got it! Have Vanessa dress up like Liz, same hairstyle and all, have her lure Tom to a motel room, then turn around and blast him.

Tabasko said...

Harry #64: I hope the number I saw was off or maybe he's had a huge increase since. I mean, Ashton Kutcher supposedly makes 750K for 2 1/2 Men.

fangirl said...

RE 53 Harry said..."But you've got to vote in the Tom poll. Some Tomophiles are stuffing the ballot box!"

Mr. President, let's hope they're stuffing it with Tom's corpse.

Did I vote? I thought I did!

fangirl said...

RE 57 Harry said..."For all those who think Tom aka Mr HGH +Anabolic Steroids adds so much to the show, imagine a BL spinoff called "The Adventures of Tom Keen." How many episodes do you think it'd be on the air before it's cancelled? My guess is 4 max."

Wait, what?? Are you saying the actor Ryan Eggold does steroids? (I'm not sure what HGH. Please don't make me look it up.)

Anyway! Ya know, maybe the show's powers that be are already working on a Tom Keen spinoff. Urggh. It'll be a huge hit. Members of the Anti-Tom Club will suffer a group aneurysm. Maybe we can get a group discount on craniotomies?

Harry said...

Fangirl #68: HGH = Human Growth Hormone. I'm convinced from the shirtless photos of the Dweebster that he must've been juicing with steroids and HGH

Harry said...

Fangirl #67: After searching throughout the internet, I've concluded that there is a very small but very vocal subset of viewers who like Tom. The majority detest his character and feel that he draws time and attention away from Red, and turns the BL into a silly soap opera. There are also quite a few women -- and men -- who resent the depiction of a supposedly strong leading lady having any kind of relationship with a lying, abusive and selfish imposter spouse.

If the showrunners would actually wake up and open their eyes, they'd see that the BL is succeeding in spite of, and not because of, Tom. They'd also see that most fans are fed up with the whole Tom-Liz, Tom-Red subplots, and desperately want Tom to be gone.

I'm not the only one. If the showrunners want eye candy for female viewers, they should license some shirtless clips of Brad Pitt from "Fight Club" or "Thelma and Louise."

Harry said...

Every now and then, I skim through the IMDb message board for The Blacklist. Usually there are a lot of "trolls" spouting off-topic nonsense, but there are currently quite a few well-reasoned comments about how Tom is ruining the show and detracting from what made the show enjoyable, ie Red and HIS story.

Tabasko said...

fangirl, Harry: #67-71: I know I've said it before, but the marketing done by NBC since a couple of weeks before Tom's return has been all about him. Don't care for it as they are ignoring the real heart of the story.

Promos all with him, when you would open the NBC Blacklist page, all pictures of Tom.

I tuned in to the show at the beginning to see JS and got hooked on the style of the show and the story of Red. The ratings haven't been exactly stellar lately, so wherever is happening, it is not as successful as S1.

Tom could be AN interesting part of the show, but he is not THE interesting part of the show.

Could be partly the time change, but I don't think entirely.

P.S. I won't say how here, but someone with a little extra time can manipulate their browser settings after voting and easily vote as many times they want. Fanatical-type people might take that time.

Harry said...

Groan... Tom is in the next episode AGAIN? That's -2.25 a Fedora Points right off the bat.
Where is the Deer Hunter and her metal shovel when you really need them? And her teeth... though Tom's liver is probably full of toxins and infected with the Dweeb Virus.

Chompstick said...

You guys are doing a great job keeping your curmudgeonly Tom talk over here. Thank you so much!

Harry said...

Chompstick #74: Why don't they give Ryan E his own show as a lifeguard who moonlights as a secret agent ? That'd give all of the Tom fans all of the shirtless scenes they want. Kind of like 007 meets Baywatch. I just don't want him polluting the BL anymore -- and making Liz even more pathetic than she already is.

I am not alone.

Harry said...

Hey, anybody besides me notice that ReCAPTCHA rarely requires code words or food/drink selections to get the green check mark in the morning hours ? I wonder why that is.

Chompstick said...

It's a reward system I've instituted to get more early morning participation.

No, I don't have any control over CAPTCHA, so I have no idea.

Tabasko said...

#76 Harry: Yeah, I have noticed a difference. It seems to me I don't get many whenever I initially start posting on a given day. Then, as the day goes on and the more posts I have, the more NAR's I will get.

For me, at least, it doesn't matter when I start. I seem to get more after a few posts.

They don't really bother me, just some info.

fangirl said...

Replace Ryan Eggold with Brad Pitt?!?!? Uh, my computer sorta swooned a lil bit there.

Maybe Bokencamp has fallen wildly in love with Ryan? Seriously. It's the only thing I can think of that would explain this sudden Tom Phase the show is going through.

Best line of the Vanessa Cruz episode? Megan Boone says to Ryan Eggold: "You're not that good of an actor." And in that nanosecond after she delivers that line, they both grin a tiny little contemptuous kinda grin at each other. You know Ryan is thinking the exact same thing back to Megan, and you know they both know it.

fangirl said...

RE 72 Tabasko said..."P.S. I won't say how here, but someone with a little extra time can manipulate their browser settings after voting and easily vote as many times they want. Fanatical-type people might take that time."

??? But it's just a friendly, informal poll about a fictional character. If anybody is fanatical enough to go to the trouble of voting more than once, I feel sorry for them.

fangirl said...

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that Spader seems less intense and less into the whole thing lately. Is that just a misperception, or do you guys think it's a real thing? If it's real, do you think it's because the show is pushing Tom more and more?

Tabasko said...

fangirl #80 and #81: I hope no one would vote multiple times. It just looked like there were an awful lot more Team Tom votes than I have read pro-Tom comments!

Since NBC has basically only been marketing about Tom, I would be disappointed if I were any other character on the show, especially if I were JS.

It's like the show is about Tom only if you are judging by the marketing.

That "Ways Tom Keen is a Badass' video was very telling.

Harry said...

I just don't think the targeted demographic -- or the vast majority of BL fans -- couid give a hootin' holler about Tom. Featuring him in promos is a huge mistake. Let's face it: the BL is about Raymond Reddington as portrayed by James Spader. They could surround him with mannequins and people would still watch. Oh wait... that's what they've done with RE and MB.

Tabasko said...

Harry #84: Ditto.

Chompstick said...

Aside from the highly scientific results of the BSG poll, it appears that others agree with you, Harry.

"The Longevity Initiative" had an all-time series low rating of 1.6 million viewers in the all-important 18-49 demographic. "Vanessa Cruz" tied that number.

www.zap2it.com

Harry said...

Chompstick #85: There's a HUGE feminist backlash against the Tom-Liz nonsense. Like I and many others have observed, having your supposedly "strong" female lead continuing in a "twisted" relationship with an abusive ex-husband is revolting. Even if it's fictional , the whole idea is insulting.

Personally, I also feel bad because I recommended the BL to my friends and family after the first episode. Now they're all as nauseated by the Tom-Red-Liz nonsense as I am. Nobody signed up for "The Dweebster Adventure Hour" starring Ryan Eggold and featuring James Spader.

Tabasko said...

#85: Interesting about the ratings.

I'm probably a tiny bit different than everyone else on the Cranky Page. I am still ok with Tom on the show. Just tiring of tbe amount of time and money devoted to him.

That video from a few weeks back should have been "300 Reasons Why Red Reddington Is A Badass."

Chompstick said...

I am currently liking Tom on the show, Tabs. I went from last year disgusted by him, until his mustang driving episode when he lost the glasses. At that point I liked him on the show. At sometime in the fall I couldn't stand him again. By The Decembrist I wanted to vomit during his scenes, and then that flipped when he showed up in Germany. Thus the teeter-totter.

Tabasko said...

#88 Chompstick not Chopsticks: I am, too, at the end of the day. Yep, it's up and down with it. Dweeb Tom was hard to take. I was flat out dreading his return this season and it ended up being one of my favorite Season 2 episode. No doubt he looked great which didn't hurt!

I thought that Germany line was very interesting, too. I hope it doesn't get totally dropped. Where are those Germans now? Are they still hunting Tom? Did they run across some strudel or bratwurst or something?

A freind said Ryan E. was on the Today Show this morning? I don't think he's going anywhere soon.

I would be lost without the TTTT.

I like him while I'm watching but after I get away from the episode sometimes I'm not as sure. Weird.

Chompstick said...

#89 - Tabackscratcher, I found the Today Show video. I'm going to put it on the Tom Bond page and continue our discussion over there so the restless Anti-Tom clubbers can be free of us.

The Tom page can be accessed on the Secondary Characters page.

fangirl said...

RE 82 Tabasko said..."Since NBC has basically only been marketing about Tom"

?!?! oh wow I didn't know that. This is not good :(



RE 87 Tabasko said..."That video from a few weeks back should have been "300 Reasons Why Red Reddington Is A Badass."

EXACTLY.

fangirl said...

RE 86 Harry said..."There's a HUGE feminist backlash against the Tom-Liz nonsense"

I'd love to read about the backlash. That's so interesting! Can you tell me where you read about it? links of course are appreciated thanks!

Harry said...

Fangirl. #92: For example, on IMDB message board, thread titled "fights in the fandom all over the web." It refers to twitter and Facebook. I have neither, but my sister showed me a sampling.

Lots of people -- both women and men -- are repulsed by the portrayal of Liz-still-loves-Tom. I'm grossed out too, but more than anything the focus on Tom and the inordinate amount of time devoted to his scenes (at the expense of Red and his Army) is ruining the show for many people.

Like I've said, if the showrunners think Tom is such a great character, let them create a spinoff called "The Tom Keen Adventure Hour", and get him OFF the BL. He is sinking the show 's ratings. There are too many viewers who detest his character, his story lines, his purported "redemption", and most of all, the way he makes Liz come off as dumb, weak and pathetic.

Harry said...

#87, 91 etc. NBC releasing a video about "x # of Reasons Tom Keen is a Badass" reminds me of a G of T scene between Joffrey and Tywin Lannister. Joffrey announced he could do anything he wanted ie, he intended to do something sadistic, since "I am the King!" Tywin responded: "Anyone who must announce "I am the king" is no true king" before sending Joffrey to bed.

If NBC has to tell viewers why Tom is a "badass", it means he is not a real badass. Just a ratings-sucking dweeb.

Harry said...

#93 cont (to Fangirl): See also the IMDB Blacklist message board thread: "Final proof that Tom Keen is a DUD - 1.6 Ratings."

Harry said...

Final rant (for now): Why don't the showrunners feature a Samar-Aram story line instead of noxious Tom? Their characters are better, their actors are better, and the audience is more invested in them and their back stories.

As for Liz, I'd rather see her hook up with Abby Issa. After all, they've both been duped by imposter mates. They can commiserate, share sob stories, and slowly develop a romance. Now THAT would boost the ratings. Add Vanessa to the mix, and that love triangle would send the ratings through the roof.

Okay. That's my whacked-out premise for the day.

Harry said...

Sorry. One last rant: Why can't Tom's stupid SS neck tattoo get infected, and then have him die from sepsis? That would be a fitting end.

Harry said...

Richard: No offense, and nothing personal. Featuring Tom Keen in promos and story lines would be like the NE Patriots putting their undrafted free agent scout team long snapper on the cover of their media guide, and burying a tiny picture of Tom Brady somewhere on p.46.

Red IS The BL. Tom Keen is dead weight.

I am not alone.

Tabasko said...

#94 Harry: Ha! Good GoT comparison!

I have caught up, incidentally.

I am somewhere in the middle here, as I like Tom in his current state but I think the heavy marketing around almost his character only is a bit of a miss.

I like every character on the show at present, but I wouldn't want to see a whole campaign devoted to Aram or Samar or even Dembe or Huds.

Harry said...

Tabasko #99: Sacrilege! Hudson is the real star of the BL (next to JS). I'd watch a whole episode devoted to Mr. Vargas and Hudson. (It'd have to be more entertaining than Tom with a lousy German gang.)

Harry said...

Tabasko #99: PS I've been binge-re-watching Seasons 1-4 of G of T in anticipation of Season 5 premiere this Sunday. I refuse to watch "Rains of Castamere" again, for obvious reasons. Loved "Kissed by Fire", "The Climb", and everything else with Ygritte and "You know nothing" Jon Snow.

The BL ought to have a wildling-like female character like Ygritte.

Tabasko said...

#101 Harry; Indeed! Sorry to Liz fans, but I am dying for a female equal to Red and I don't think she is cutting it yet. I really think they could solve some of this back-and-forth stuff and have them team up. Come up with new ways to move the story.

Off topic, but did you see "Seth Meyers takes Jon Snow to a Dinner Party?"

I don't watch Seth Meyers much, but he is a GoT fan and it's amusing. It can be searched. it aired a day or 2 ago.

Jen said...

I'm in the Tom Keen has ruined the show for me boat. I haven't watched since the Tom and Red debacle imploded the show. I didn't even make it out of "The Major" episode. After the end of the season, and I read reviews, I will decide if I want to watch the rest of this season or again next season. A show that doesn't honor it's own history in the second season is not one I want to watch, no matter how much I love James Spader as an actor.

Harry said...

Jen #103: I hear you loud and clear. I've been complaining for months now that the contrived Tom-Red nonsense is ruining the show, and the continuing Tom-Liz silliness is making her look pathetic and stupid. Maybe once enough viewers abandon the show, the showrunners will finally wake up.

Harry said...

And "The Major" was horrible. Worst BL episode ever.

Jen said...

Sadly Harry, I think the love of Ryan by our lovely producers are making them too "love sick" to see what's going on.

And I believe it was stated above about James Spader looking less intense, and if that's true, that makes me sad. Also, it makes me wonder how long James Spader will want to do the show with this general direction. I mean he has stated previously about the show having to be interesting to him for him to do it. He's also commented about the long schedule commitments to network television. I'm not trying to imply any inside knowledge of the workings of Mr. Spader's mind, but becoming a bit player on HIS show, wouldn't be interesting to me, and I'm nowhere near as interesting as him.

I had an interesting conversation with my mother about this show. She's been watching since the beginning along with me. She's still watching, and she now wants to kill off most of the cast, arguing that as long as James Spader is willing to do the show, MB and most everyone else is replaceable. It was kind of funny, because I couldn't argue with her logic, even if it was a little off.

I don't think anyone can argue right now the trajectory of the show is a good one -- well, at least using the slumping ratings as a barometer. And to be honest the ratings most likely aren't going to improve no matter how much NBC continues to try to make me drink the "Tom is wonderful Kool Aid." To MB's credit, I forgot where I read it, but she doesn't want Lizzie back with Tom either.

Harry, the only thing I can "hope" for is by doing this contrived story line now is that it won't ruin the season finale because it will already be out of the way. The question though is will anyone be watching by then? I won't be.

Tabasko said...

#105 H: Aaaahhh, The Major! Please don't remind me.

I still think it should be retitled to "The Major......Waste Of Time."

They started and actually finished a plot line this season with the Harbormaster murder. Maybe it will continue and they'll finish a few out.

Otherwise, the UFO and APL lists are gonna grow!

I think those German guys chasing Tom are going to join the bottle key. Are they just hanging out? Are they still looking for Tom? Did they head back to Deutschland for some schnitzel?

They leave so many things hanging.

Rant over.

fangirl said...

I heart this forum :)

fangirl said...

RE 93 Harry said... "[Tom] makes Liz come off as dumb, weak and pathetic."

As you know, Mr. President, I'm almost as anti-Tom as you are, but there are only 2 things that make Liz come off as dumb, weak, and pathetic:

1. the writers who write dialogue for Liz

2. the actor who portrays Liz



fangirl said...

For Richard and other Game of Thrones fans here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWUFXvaZjo

:)

Harry said...

Fangirl #109: I agree those are the two main reasons (though MB was good in her car scene with JS at the end of T Earl King). I just find it implausible, and indicative if a weak and pathetic character, for Liz to have anything to do with an imposter husband who: strangled an innocent man in front of her eyes (and then she somehow deluded herself into thinking he did it to "protect her"); provided the Hit List for Berlin to murder and maim her colleagues; bashed her in the head and knocked her out when she found his stupid hideout; repeatedly lied to her; planned a fraudulent adoption; and perhaps worst of all, abandoned Hudson in the middle if the street at night.

Chompstick said...

Hudson - definitely worst of all! It was good for me to read Tom's illustrious resume.

Tabasko said...

#111: And he had sexual relations with her under some very weird pretenses that were pretty disturbing and wretch-worthy.

Tabasko said...

Harry & Mary #112,113 from VC page:

Definitely see use as a verb:

I just Tom Keened in my mouth a little bit. (of good use during Tom-Liz romantic scenes)

Or Harry had a little too much vodka is his morning coffee and now he's Tom Keening in the restroom.

fangirl said...

To Lisa Dale Jones re your comment in the VCruz discussion, that it's hard to believe that Tom can't swim.


omg exactly. One of the most ridiculous lines ever written for a supposedly "bad ass" superspy.

Has anybody written a list of "11 Reasons Tom Keen is not a bad ass"?

Harry said...

Fangirl #136 from p.2 of VC episode page:

So Tom can't swim? Sounds like the making of a great episode: Red drops Tom into shark-infested waters, and sips Chardonney in a hovering helicopter while waiting to see if Tom drowns before he is dismembered and devoured by sharks. For added dramatic effect, Red tosses buckets of diced bait fish into the water next to Tom to incite the sharks into a feeding frenzy. Either that, or he stuffs Tom's bathing suit full of salmon.

P.S. Hey Hideous Fish. Would you like to see this scenario play out? Or would you prefer piranhas instead of sharks ?

Harry said...

Fangirl #115: Listing the 11+ reasons Tom is NOT a badass sounds like a fun exercise to pass the time during the hiatus. Something to think about in the morning as I TomKeen, shower and shave.

Harry said...

#115, #117: Reasons Tom is NOT a "Badass", Nos. 1 & 2

1. Sucker-punched his petite wife when she found his stupid mancave/hideout, when he could've easily waited for her to leave and walked away.

2. Unnecessarily killed Jolene, after chickening out when he had an open invitation to bed her. (Maybe this counts as two reasons.)

Tabasko said...

Harry #118: When you are completing this list, may I respectfully suggest my #113 above and the fact that Tom needs water wings in liquid depths of over 4 feet.

Thank you.

Mary said...

May I suggest more of a David Letterman Top ten countdown...?

#10 Strangles new guests at ship parties...

#9 Makes Passover guests uncomfortable...

#8 Classroom of children staring at clock waiting for teacher to come back...

#7 Cheats at Cowboys and Indians and kills the cowboy

#6 Tallest person in kiddie pool

#5 Ruins hard wood flooring by digging holes to hide stuff

#4 Starts fight that guarantees no security deposit return on rental home

#3 Not good at hide and seek as everyone can find him in a city of millions

#2 Creepy shower buddy

and the number one reason Tom isn't bad ass:

Has never once asked about Hudson!

Tabasko said...

Mary #120: That is hilarious!!!

Made my afternoon!

Mary said...

Tabasko...#6 was a tribute to you lol

Charmed said...

Mary, Very good Top 10. Fangirl should love this!

Harry said...

Tabasko #119; Mary: I assumed all along this list would be an ongoing, collaborative effort. However, I doubt we will be able to limit ourselves to eleven ways Dweebster -- I mean Tom - isn't a "badass." I'm thinking triple digits might be more realistic; I'm sure each of us couid come up with 30-40 different reasons.

Sort of off-topic , but by comparison I find it odd that Raymond Reddington graduated early from the Nsval Academy and was being groomed for Admiral, and is full of seafaring adventures, free-diving, etc.

Yet supposed "badass" Tom Keen can't even swim. So let's see: point blank bullets to the gut don't kill him. Knife gashes to his thighs and torso don't kill him. But throw him in a kiddie pool in 2' of water and he'll drown? That's some superspy. No wonder Red called him a "defective product."

Mary said...

#124 Harry...I love your thoughts on how not to kill Tom. We can now move on to things that Tom survives.

Nuclear explosion...cockroaches and Tom survives. He's having a twinkie.

Tabasko said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tabasko said...

#124, 125: Animal attack by Petey the Transgendered Lovebird, The Deerhunter's Yellow Canary, and a very ticked off Hudson.

Mary said...

#127 Tabasko! I love it!!!

Passenger on Titanic. Wraps legs around iceberg and snaps it in half. Cold heartedness keeps him from freezing to death. Back floats ashore.

Tabasko said...

#128 Mary: That was better than Laugh Out Loud; that was Snort Out Loud.

Drives off cliff in Mustang. Lands in ocean and builds secret hideout. Punches out the fish who finds it.

Stars in a Caine Mutiny spinoff called "Captain Dweeb."

Chompstick said...

I have created a new discussion page for the 2 week hiatus reruns, The Scimitar and The Decembrist.
Rerun Page

Of course, the Cranky page is always here!

Harry said...

Tabasko 127: Petey would bite off that SS neck tattoo faster than Tom sliced off Red's tracker's spider web neck tattoo. Petey is probably less than six inches from beak to tail, but I'd bet the farm on her in a one-on-one, no holds barred grudge match between her and Tom. Petey would make what Ranko Zemani did to Tom seem like a flea bite.

Harry said...

Mary #128: Tom would throw orphans off a lifeboat to escape the sinking Titanic. Irate women would then toss him overboard. He would not freeze to death -- because he'd drown in less than 60 seconds.

Or....A swan dive off the upturned bow onto the exposed propeller would be nice and colorful...

Tabasko said...

Harry #131: All my money is on Petey.

Harry said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Harry said...

Copied from Comments to "Tom Poll" page:

4/9/15: The reported percentages of the Tom/Anti-Tom/Teeter Totter poll appear to be inaccurate or obsolete.

Team Tom is 42%, not 50%
Anti-Tom aka Astute Viewers is 36%, not 27%
Teeter-Totter is 22%, not 23%

Our crack statisticians therefore report that only 2 in 5 respondents are in favor of Tom. Three out of five could take him or leave him, or want him booted off.

Say what you want Richard, but that's what the numbers mean (the way I spin them).

fangirl said...

:( I'd like to think the polls are for fun. Real math makes me cranky.

Harry said...

Fangirl #136: Polls are for fun, but my (admittedly unscientific) review of commentary throughout the internet has convinced me that a substantial segment, if not a majority, of BL fans are fed up with the showrunners' attempts to shoehorn Tom into every episode, and to rewrite already-established show canon to make "room" for Tom plot lines. BSG is far and away the best BL site, but IMBd message board has some cogent comments about the diseases caused by the Tom infection.

Whether or not a viewer likes, dislikes, or is ambivalent about Tom, an undeniable truth is that the inordinate amount of time devoted to Tom-Liz and Tom-Red nonsense -- I mean story lines -- has relegated popular and promising characters like Samar Navabi to the sidelines. It has arguably retarded or reversed Liz's character's evolution from naive newbie to wisened field agent. It has also, in my view, undermined Red's character, motivations, and much of his already-established Season 1 back story.

My impression has been that more time for Tom has meant less time for Red. And that's no good. Perhaps JS likes it better when he can show up for a glorified cameo on an episode, and go home for rife week with a hefty paycheck after just a half day of filming. Somehow, I doubt that: he's too much of a professional and perfectionist to phone in a performance and sell his soul so cheaply.
This isn't really an anti-Tom or anti-RE rant. I'd be just as perturbed if they devoted too much air time to (and focused promos on) Harold Cooper, Samar Navabi, Donald Ressler, Aram, or anyone else. Of course, I'd be doubly upset if they changed the show universe history to set up new back stories for any if these characters as well. (Eg, if Ressler was actually a henchman for Red before joining the FBI team trying to hunt him down; or if Red had a secret romance with Audrey after she broke up with Ressler; if Aram were really a double agent and Berlin's partner all along; or if Hudson was really a shapeshifting alien sent to infiltrate the task force by Space Agent UD-4561. Or better yet, if Hudson were really an animatronic robot/cyborg whose neural net contained the Fulcrum Blackmail Files.

It'd be more plausible for The Fulcrum to be attached to Hudson's collar or contained in an implanted ID microchip under his skin, than shoved inside a 25 year old stuffed bunny rabbit.

If it weren't for Aram's paranoid Notes, I'd bet the device inside the stuffed bunny turned out to be nothing more than a drawstring-activated recording of a squeaky voice saying: "Hi! My name is Fluffy! I want a carrot!"; and "My name is Fluffy. Will you be my friend?"

Well, it's 4:45 AM. Better try to go back to sleep rather than expound on a Robot Hudson = The Fulcrum Theory.

Harry said...

Correction to para 3 of #137 above: "the rest of the", not "rife"

fangirl said...

A spoiler? Here? I'm so cranky that I actually am at this moment mentally scrolling through a veryvery long list of cusswords, trying to decide which one best expresses just how cranky I feel about seeing a spoiler, here.

Chompstick said...

Harry, your spoiler is being moved to the Spoiler page, which is the only page on BSG where spoilers are permitted.

Harry said...

Chompstick #140: So sorry. I should know better than to post when I'm half asleep. I guess hybrid Cranky + Spoiler comments should go on the Spoiler page then? Or better yet, I'll try to eliminate any crankiness from anything that might constitute a spoiler.

Harry said...

Chompstick; Please don't put me in the Penalty Box for "excessive Tom crankiness." I will make a conscious effort to couch any criticism in dignified terms.

Unfortunately, I am unable to "preview" posts before hitting "Publish", so I can't review the full text of a post that exceeds the 9 or 10 lines that fit on my cellphone screen. No excuse. Just an observation.

Harry said...

Fangirl #139: I owe you an apology too. I am sorry for the semi-spoiler I inappropriately included on this page.

I'd better implement a no-posting-after-midnight regulation.

Tabasko said...

#137 Harry: I pretty much agree with this. Watching The Scimitar again last night really reminded me of how much time the Tom story lines have been taking up lately and depleting the time devoted to the other characters. In this episode, he had some time, but there was a whole development Samar. There was more of a balance.

Some Tom is OK. A lot isn't great TV to me. As I said above somewhere, I like when the show has balance and don't really want to see any secondary character taking over the show.

It is still the same on the NBC site. When you open The Blacklist's page, it's a huge picture of Tom (and Liz this time.) It's been that way for weeks and weeks.

I didn't really start watching the show for romance, so I could do with that part of Tom and Liz entirely, besides all the reasons it doesn't make sense.

Harry said...

Tabasko #144: And that's really at the heart of my frustration. I got hooked on the BL by the intriguing premise in the pilot: World-wise, witty Red and his mysterious connection with unwitting Liz. Ioved his scenes with Ressler and Dembe in Anslo Garrick. I loved his quips, his stories, and his strange moral code. Every emotion he portrayed was believable, even if pisdibly fabricated as in Madeline Pratt. I wanted to learn about HIS story, and how, when and why he became the metaphorical "hideous fish" and what it is about Liz that she can give him a "second chance." I admired his protectiveness and self-sacrifice when it came to Liz, which seemed so at odds with his criminal history and avarice.

I've griped ad nauseum about my displeasures with the ex post facto story lines and shift in focus to the Tom-related "romance" and Red-connection angles, so there's no need for me to repeat them here. I guess on a way I feel like the patsy in a bait-and-switch tactic: I got lured in by the promise of a James Spader antihero mystery story, and now find myself watching a completely different show about characters I don't care about who have none of JS's talent, magnetism or charisma. No knock on Ryan E. I wish him luck and hope someone gives him - and his fans - the opportunity for him to star in his own TV show.
It's just that I signed up for James Spader and his portrayal of Raymond Reddington - the eat he was presented to us in Season 1. That came to an abrupt and inexplicable end the moment Tom mentioned the "us" connection in the scene on which he was supposed to never see Liz again.

[to be cont. ]

Harry said...

I keep messing up typing "on" vs. "in"

Tabasko said...

#144 last para: That's do without, not do with.

Red said...

Well I heard that Tom gets to stay because the fans have let the writers know they like Tom/Ryan.

Tabasko said...

#148 Red: Yes, I imagine you are right about that.

More than a couple of people here have seemingly given up on the show for it, though.

I am not sure how interesting storytelling in general would be if the choice popular with fans won out over the original narrative, but maybe I will be wrong.

Ali McGraw would have risen up out of bed at the the of Love Story if people watching got to pick the ending.



Harry said...

Red #148, Tabasko #149:

"Art is not a democracy. People don't get to vote on how it ends."
-- George R.R. Martin

I quote this because there's a real danger when writers let fans influence the direction of a book or TV series. First of all, abandoning the original creative core invariably results in illogical character behavior and inconsistent story arcs. Second, a minuscule but vocal subset of the viewership can effectively dictate characters' screen time and story lines, despite the creators' original vision which captured the imagination of the audience. Third, trivial or juvenile predilections of a few rabid fans -- like how good an actor looks without a shirt or how good an actress looks in a bathing suit -- can outweigh actors' talents and obscure screenwriters' visions.

If, as has been reported, the BL's showrunners make decisions in part on the content of social media, they are doing themselves and the fan base a huge disservice.

I for one might like to see Hani Avital (Abby Issa) parade around in a bikini and lock lips with Donsld Ressler every episode, but I would never expect or want the BL to accommodate my whims and abandon what made it great in the first place: Raymond Reddington's story and the brilliance of JS's portrayal of that enigmatic character.

Harry said...

Tabasko #149, para. 2: Sadly, I am very close to giving up on the show. Ranting on the Cranky Page is an exercise in futility -- assuming Eisendrath and Bokenkamp don't bother looking at commentaries that don't comport with the tweets they get from a small gaggle of fans.

Everything you wrote is prescient and accurate.

And meanwhile, as the show veers off onto distracting tangents and contrivances, the amount of abandoned plot points and unexplained objects couid fill a baseball stadium.

fangirl said...

@ Harry RE #143 Thank you, and apology accepted of course. What's going on? If it's insomnia, I can totally relate.

fangirl said...


Re giving up on the show:

If Red is dead, the show is dead. But I'll keep watching it anyway because, like a lot of people, being constantly frustrated with TV shows and TV actors and TV writers satisfies a deep yearning in my soul, a vast empty void that can only be filled by drama and refined carbohydrates.

Laocoon said...

harry et all - I agree that the social media feedback loop with the showrunners is an issue. I don't have a problem if they use social comments to inform their storytelling. However it's all too easy to fall into "recency bias" and lose track of the story arc.

Also for every season they get renewed there's a need a stretch out the underlying mythology. If you watched Fringe there was an issue at the last season with the half season renewal. The shorter time frame forced them to compress the story to get it wrapped up.

In many ways I don't envy their job. I agree though that the social media loop risks a loss of focus.

Mary said...

#153 fangirl...if Red is dead from one bullet after every thing this show has asked us to believe, then that's quite the plot twist! lol

This thing about the show runners going with what fans want...if that was the case, then the father/daughter relationship would have been cemented. Plus every show would be a Red quippalooza.

btw...#124 Harry. I do think your list of ongoing reasons Tom is not a bad *ss should be continued. Mine was just an off the wall attempt to lighten the mood. As with the things Tom survives.

Tabasko said...

Laocoon #154: Fringe is a good example. The writers there did expand the story in some ways that weren't part of the initial story. And then had to wrap it all up quickly.

Heroes sometimes comes to mind, as it got so much attention and was really good at the beginning. But then in Season 2, there were major random occurrences and inconsistencies. Far worse than BL, but it went off the air pretty quickly then.

Tabasko said...

Mary #155: I don't know what number but...Tom not a BA continued.

Has to sport outdated "ZZ Top" tattoo as only option to cover poor-decision "SS" neck lettering.

Mary said...

Love it!

Tom's bologna has neither a first name or a last name.

Tabasko said...

HA!!!

He once lost a fight with an extra-strength Hefty trash bag.

He cries at the end of 'Paul Blart, Mall Cop."

Mary said...

LOL!!!

He's already in line for the premier of Paul Blart, Mall Cop 2.

Tom thinks Frosted Flakes are just okay...

fangirl said...

Something else I've been thinking about -- if the show's powers that be put it to a vote -- kill of Tom, or kill off Liz -- one, or the other, but not both -- how would you vote?

After giving it a lot of thought, I was actually surprised to realize that I would vote to kill off Liz. As annoying as Tom is, Liz is infinitely more annoying. I've hated Liz since very early in season 1, while I've only hated Tom since the season 2 episode in which it was revealed that Liz had stupidly let him live after promising Red she would "finish it".

fangirl said...

hey I loved (almost) everybody's contributions to the "11 reasons Tom Keen is NOT a BA".

I was trying to think of real bits from the various episodes, like Tom admitting he can't swim. Real BAs teach themselves how to swim and other cool stuff that can help them survive and triumph over their enemies.

Reason 1 for me would be, any guy who beats up on a woman and fake-marries her, is not a BA. He's just a a coward and a jerk. Real BAs don't pick on people weaker and stupider than themselves.

A third reason is the whining. Most recently, Tom's been whining to Liz, to Red, and to the Major. On the boat, he whined about being cold. Real BAs don't whine.

Fourth reason -- taking money from Red to run away. Real BAs can't be bought.

Any other reasons based directly on bits from the various episodes?

Tabasko said...

Mary #160: Frosted Flakes! You are funny!

fangirl: I get silly when times are tough (no new episodes for a couple of weeks) but absolutely, Tom is not anything "badass" to me. It seemed that marketing was trying to make him cool after the fact and aspects of him have been anything but. He can be a psychologically disturbed bad guy, but that is about it. You can't redeem that character fully in a couple of episodes and have it make sense.

Lying to your wife, even your fake wife, is not BA. Making out with another woman is not BA.

He also watched a 'Real Housewives" episode. That one is from a BL episode, I think "The Alchemist."

Tabasko said...

Harry #150: That is a good and appropriate George R.R. Martin quote.

It's the illogical behavior that kills things like this. Once you've gone and created a world that has certain conventions and rules, you have to stick to them or nothing makes sense or keeps an audience interested.

I don't think all is lost yet, though.

Tabasko said...

fangirl #162: That's an interesting question.

My initial thought would be save Liz. I agree with some of the frustration you have with her because I have some as well.

But, since Red's coming in had something to do with her and her existence seems important to him, I would vote to off Tom. I think the Red-Liz story is more interesting that Liz-Tom or Red-Tom.

C Fergy said...

Harry, after reading your posts on this thread I think you should stop watching the show immediately. Television is suppose to be for entertainment and enjoyment. The fact that this show, Tom's presence in particular, upsets you so much you should really find another show to watch and abandon this one all together.

I am not being facetious I am genuinely concerned for your mental well being. I can actually feel your anger jumping off the page with your posts. It seems like it started with the Tom return episode and now has spiraled into several other issues. It is beyond my comprehension how someone that has a job and a social life would let a television show upset them to the degree that you are upset.

Did you think if the show runners read your distain for Tom they would re-write the show and take Tom out of the episode even though he has been under contract since the show began? Because they didn't do that you are frustrated?

Please enlighten me how you can let one character, in one show, cause you to rant like you have been? Especially when you have a choice of so many shows to watch. Unless it is of a personal nature and/or experience you have had with someone like Tom I fail to understand it.

Your statements about the backlash regarding Tom I find to be unfounded. The biggest complaint I have read about BL is dragging out the connection between Red and Liz too long. Tom is actually an intricate part of that reveal.

Nothing personal, I am just perplexed by your continuous rants and wonder what the source is.

Harry said...

C Fergy #167: Don't worry. Like J Biltz before me, I'm done with the show or commenting on it. It has been ruined beyond repair.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, adieu....

-- Harry

fangirl said...

RE: #166 Tabasko said..."But, since Red's coming in had something to do with her and her existence seems important to him, I would vote to off Tom. I think the Red-Liz story is more interesting that Liz-Tom or Red-Tom."

Absolutely, that's my feeling, too, that the Red-Liz story is more interesting. In the Berlin Conclusion episode, I assumed she had "finished it" by putting Tom out of their mutual misery, as Red had warned her to do. That seemed to open up the possibility that she would go on to develop an actual romantic relationship with Ressler. Then, in season 2 (the Dr. Covington episode) when they introduced Motel Man, that was another romantic possibility for her.

Ressler is a likeable character -- one of those "still waters run deep" kinda guys, but I think Motel Man would be more interesting, because he's kind of like Spider Man :) Maybe it would have been fun if they had developed a classic "love triangle" for Liz, as she fell in love with both Ressler and Motel Man, and they with her.

I also thought maybe they would develop a romance between Red and Samar. Now, though, the Vanessa Cruz character is way more interesting as a potential romantic partner for Red. Charmed and others pointed out Vanessa's background as a field laborer, which usually means poverty, or having fallen into poverty from a higher station in life, due to some surely cinematic tragedy. At any rate, she's a highly intelligent and determined character who would probably have great on-screen chemistry with Red.

Harry said...

C Fergy #167 cont. Do you really think para. 2 of your post isn't the kind of personal attack we've all avoided on BSG? Unless you are a qualified mental health professional competent to make diagnoses from afar....

Anyway, I hope you continue to enjoy The Tom Keen Adventure Hour. Game of Thrones Season 5 starts tonight. At least I won't have to worry about Joffrey miraculously surviving his poisoning and returning to the show for a ridiculous redemption arc, while relegating Arya and Tyrion to benchwarmers.

Bye bye.

fangirl said...

RE# 164 Tabasko said..."He also watched a 'Real Housewives" episode. That one is from a BL episode, I think "The Alchemist."

lol! That's perfect.


RE #165 Tabasko said..."I don't think all is lost yet, though."

I agree. I can't think of a way that all would be lost. Even if they have decided to kill of Red, hordes of fans (including me) will continue watching to the bitter end. It's just innate human curiosity, wanting to find out how it all ends. Maybe a need for closure, too.

If they have decided to kill off Red, I really think it would only be because James Spader had gotten fed up and demanded it, due to the increasing emphasis on Tom/Liz instead of Red himself. I can easily imagine that happening, but at the same time, you read about Spader and he seems to have a solid "working actor" attitude -- it's a job, and a good one, and he's mature enough as a human being to not let emotion get in the way of work.

So, who knows. This is what I like about these sorts of breaks or hiatus with TV shows -- yeah, we want to get on with it and get our weekly drama fix, but at the same time, anticipation is all part of the fun of life.

fangirl said...

aww, Harry. It doesn't take a mental health professional, it only takes a friend.

I hope it's ok if I chime in here and say, you don't seem to be like your formerly gracious self lately. Several times your posts have seemed disrespectful of Chomps's authority. You chalked it up to posting after midnight, so I asked you about insomnia. Just wondering, what's going on?

Harry said...

C Fergy #167, last para. Did you ever have a little sister stalked by a manipulative, psychopathic fraudster? Did you ever have to get a restraining order when his violent past and present threats of violence came to light? If not, don't presume to judge.

Maybe the BL will put a Fedora on RE so they don't have to bother with JS anymore. Would you like that ?

Tabasko said...

Guys, as a reader who enjoys everyone's posts, I find Harry's opinions to be interesting and funny. Obviously, Harry, I don't know you except for through here, but I think there is some intentional hyperbole in your writing.

I actually have training in psychology, although it is more in the field if mediation and negotiation. I don't see any issues with anyone's posts.

Harry said...

Fangirl: Apparently, one of my posts got flagged for an expletive deleted that I do not even recall using. Nevertheless, I apologized. Then, a bunch of us got a little carried away using "Tom Keen" as a verb. Silly, but fun -- though they were understandably deleted.

If the tone of my comments has changed, it's because I've felt duped: I invested my time in a creative endeavor featuring an actor I've admired and a basic premise I found intriguing, but it's all mutated into something unrecognizable and inconceivable. I'm willing to suspend disbelief to be entertained, but not to be insulted.

Anyway, I thought I owed you an explanation.

Harry said...

Tabasko: OF COURSE my hyperbole was intentional. And if I felt it was sarcastic, I put it on this Cranky page. Thank you for recognizing this.

Harry said...

Fangirl: One other thing - I apologized to you for inadvertently including what couid be considered "spoiler" material under this section, instead of restricting it to the Spoiler page. I was tired. That was the reason for saying I shouldn't post after midnight. Just wanted to be clear on this.

I've also really enjoyed reading your posts.

fangirl said...

Harry it's shocking and very sad what you and your sister have been going through. Thanks for explaining, even though it can't have been easy.

I think we all are friends here, even though we don't always agree, we don't always get along, we don't always even feel friendly toward each other. Talking things out helps, I think? Some of your posts did feel disrespectful of Chomps, though of course I don't know if you actually do feel disrespectful. I'm just saying, that's how they felt to me. I didn't know you were going through all this emotion regarding the situation with your sister.

In light of the effect that the show and the Tom discussion is having on your emotions, maybe taking a break might help? I don't know, just wondering if it might help you feel less upset if you focused on something else for while, like Game of Thrones, as you mentioned. I've never seen the show but have read a little bit about it, and it sounds intelligent and cool.

Sincere best wishes to you, and to your sister, and here's hoping for a quick and satisfactory resolution to the stalking/harassment situation!

Tabasko said...

fangirl #167: Yes, exactly. Me, too on Liz. I would have more interest in either or those scenarios for Liz and it would make her character easier to root for.

It would make for some good character development for her to get past Tom. I think we are seeing some signs of that.

I would love if Red would get himself a little romance. I wonder if he is beyond all that with everything his life entails right now.

Tabasko said...

fangirl #167: Yes, I agree with you on JS. He's an intelligent guy and most actors in his spot wouldn't walk away from a good thing.

Both Ryan E. and Harry Lennix were on The Today Show in the last week and a half, and it seems the last 2 episodes for Season 2 hadn't even been filmed yet at that point. They don't know much more then we do, it seems, so anything can happen.

Tabasko said...

I hope everyone continues to watch and comment, for my part.

I have a rotten cold and am stuck on my couch, so it's somewhat selfish.

The show rightly deserves some criticism. It leaves itself too much room to shift things around and has been pretty indecisive about numerous issues. Whoever is making the major decisions could have an even bigger hit on their hands.

fangirl said...

PS to Harry -- I hope my suggestion to focus on other stuff like Game of Thrones didn't come across as rude or insensitive. It certainly wasn't written out of a feeling of rudeness. Just really shocked and sad at learning about this situation. Maybe give your thoughts and emotions a break from The Blacklist and Tom Keen will at least take your stress down a notch?

fangirl said...

@ Tabasko, I hope you feel better soon! Here are some virtual tissues and chicken soup.

Definitely I'm with you in thinking the show could be a bigger hit. I think they're squandering an opportunity. It really would be fun if we had the technical ability and know-how to remake the show along the lines of its original promise, or at least how we interpreted that original promise.

But, reality is reality. That's what we have to work with. I think maybe part of the frustration is, we can't do anything about the show. We have no power. We have no control over it, really. We're not the show's producers, creators, or writers. We have to be ok with that, or we'll be miserable.

Tabasko said...

#184 fangirl: Thanks! I feel it working already. :=)

You are quite, quite right on our control on it.... not much! I am like you. I probably won't stop watching until the end someday now. Hopefully, years from now.

Harry, I enjoy your sarcasm, wit and show insights.

It's normal to have personal experience color one's opinions. I am hopeful that any dangerous or frightening situation your sister is in can be taken care of. That's awful.

Your posts certainly don't come off as angry to me. I enjoy hyperbole. Now excuse me while I go jump off a bridge to get rid of my cough.

Mary said...

What just happened?

Harry...don't you dare leave. This cranky page was set up for us to complain on while keeping the negativity off the other pages.

This is a rough patch for all of us. We have two weeks of twiddling our thumbs before anything new happens to be able to discuss.

It's perfectly normal for us all to be concerned for each other. However concern can sometimes be misunderstood since this is typed word instead of a friend sitting next to you speaking. The way you 'read' words can do the writer an injustice.

I am going to take full responsibility for what has happened here, as my sense of humor may have distracted from the purpose of this thread/page.

Please stay Harry. You can help me break it to Tabasko that it's buildings...not bridges...that cure a cough.

C Fergy said...

#173 Harry: In answer to your question I did not have a little sister stalked by anyone.....I myself was stalked!!! By my ex husband for YEARS, until he finally went to prison. Unfortunately not for stalking but for witness tampering and attempted assault with a deadly weapon. He held a gun to a witnesses head and said if he testified he would kill him. He was sentenced to 18 months and then released in 11 months, believe it or not, for good behavior!

So I do know what it is like to carry a concealed weapon with the intend to use it if needed. When he was in prison I knew where he was, now I have no idea and again have to be extra vigilant. But with therapy I was able to live a normal life and I don't let the fact that he is out there change my life in any way. If I do, then he wins and I am NOT about to let that happen.

I also can assure you what Tom is doing is not stalking....not in the least. He has no intention to harm Liz. And watching the show does not even conjure up those feelings for me. That is why I was so concerned about your reaction. If it did conjure up those feeling for me I would definitely not watch it. I choose not to live my life in fear.

One more thing, saying that you have experienced stalking because you know someone that was stalked is like saying you know how it feels to have cancer because you know someone who has it. Trust me it is not the same, even if it your sister. I was not judging anyone, I was merely interested in finding out why you would continue to watch the show when it upset you so much.

I do think it is interesting that you find it OK to vent on this thread but I am not allowed to? Like someone else said, isn't this why Chompstick started the page?

fangirl said...

Hugs to C Fergy. So sad that happened to you. You are strong, to have survived and overcome.

Tabasko said...

Mary #186: Yes, what just happened, indeed.

If you can't laugh at things, life is a little joyless. I don't necessarily dislike Tom as much as others, but the lists are hilarious. Tom Keen, the verb, is just funny whether you like him or not. I've enjoyed laughing with you and Harry on those. Chompstick writes a pretty funny recap, so I figured funny was ok here.

Buildings dang! No wonder that bridge didn't work. Hahaha! You crack me up, Mary!

I an hopeful Chompstick meant the page to vent about the show if needed and hopefully not about the other posters. Things devolve pretty quickly once that starts in a group.

C Fergy, that is very upsetting to hear about. How awful. That's a horrible thing to have to deal with. Good for you to maintain a life for yourself in spite of that and perservere.

I'm sure Harry didn't mean personal offense. He seems very supportive of real-life strong women.

As an aside, family members can be very severely affected by the personal situations or illnesses endured by their family members or even friends. PTSD, for example, can develop in people who have a loved one endure a serious event as strongly as does in the person who experienced the actual event.

Too complicated a subject to go far into on a TV message board for most people.

I hope no one leaves here. There isn't anyone's posts here I don't get something out of. If I would start to read something I didn't care for, I would skip over it. But that hasn't even happened yet.

I enjoy Harry's comments tremendously and C Fergy's and everyone else's. Diversity and difference of opinion are vital to growth and learning.

Sorry to all for the lengthy post.

Mary said...

Well said Tabasko.

I put a quarter in the Blacklist jukebox and am playing The Beatles 'We Can Work It Out'.

So...a Rabbi Tom, a Priest Tom and a Minister Tom all walk in to a bar...the Preacher Tom ducked. Wait for it...

Red said...

Boo hoo!

Tabasko said...

#190 Mary: That is funny! Except if you're one of the 1st three Toms....

Haha!

fangirl said...

Basically, because BSG is set up as a "family friendly" board, if I were new here and read the "Tom Keen as a substitute word" and the recent adult-themed comments, and a few that bordered on scary (some of these posts were deleted before very many people read them), the phrase "family friendly" wouldn't exactly be the first thing that sprang to mind.

I've been guilty of forgetting all about the "family friendly" policy, myself. Here are some reminders, which I hope will be helpful to me and to all of us:

* March 5, 2015 - On the Earl King discussion, Chomps posted, "Our policy: be respectful, be family friendly" (post #3) This was a reply to a question Harry had.

* May 14, 2014 - FAQ page, "There are very few reasons a post would be deleted" includes "A comment that is not "family friendly", including profanity, sexual references, etc."

* Also on the FAQ page, in the stuff at the top - "You also may not submit a comment that ... uses expletives (including veiled profanity)."

And, finally, of course we all know that the words "cranky" and "curmudgeon" aren't synonymous with "crude" and "violent".

Do I think there are kids here, reading or posting? No, I think we're all grownups here. But the phrase "family friendly" seems pretty clear cut. Sure, we're going to forget sometimes. We all occasionally mess up. I certainly did. Apologies are great, but meaningless unless backed up by lasting change.

Chompstick LOVES BSG. I don't think any of us will ever know how much work she puts into it and how much it means to her. It really is a labor of love. Time and time again she has said that when it stops being fun, it will cease to exist.

None of want that point to come, but I know she is distressed over this stuff. I feel really guilty for contributing to any of the stress. Please, let's all make a renewed effort to show respect, particularly to Chomps. Following a few simple rules that will show new users that they can feel comfortable here, isn't too much to ask.

Everybody here has shown they're more than capable of having fun, enjoying the show, venting and being cranky and curmudgeonly and amusing, while at the same time being "family friendly".

Anyway, so, just some late night thoughts on the recent discussion.

Tabasko said...

There is also a part in the FAQ about not using posts to belittle another person, invade privacy, bicker or discourage participation by other posters.

fangirl said...

Another thought -- if part of the upsetness is coming from the realization that we have no power over The Blacklists's powers that be -- from the awareness that they're not "hearing" our cranky curmudgeonly complaints -- wouldn't it help to take some sort of positive action to try and get our voices heard? If anybody from the show is reading here, they don't seem to be doing anything about conveying our complaints to the guys who are actually in charge of the show.

So, what I'm thinking is, what about one of those online petitions? We've probably all signed a few for various causes, some trivial, like a TV show, and some important, but I'm not sure how they actually work. Would such a petition end up being read by the right people in the right office at NBC? Does anybody know how to manage that?

If we could get a good petition together, and get it into the right hands, at least we'd feel that we had actually made a solid attempt to take some legitimate action. Unless a bunch of us live near the NBC offices and could organize an actual (civilized) protest involving waving cleverly-worded picket signs :) this is the only action I can think of that might have any real chance of making our concerns heard. It's fun to vent amongst ourselves, but ultimately that's just "preaching to the choir".

Any thoughts?

Chompstick said...

Harry, please check your email for a personal, private response from me. I sent it to the email I used when you did the recap.

Thanks - Chompstick

C Fergy said...


#193 Fangirl: Perfectly stated! Chompstick has put an enormous amount of time in on this website and has done a commendable job. This is one of the best sites on the internet. And yes I feel that Harry disrespected her in a few of his posts as well.

C Fergy said...

#189 Tabasko: "As an aside, family members can be very severely affected by the personal situations or illnesses endured by their family members or even friends. PTSD, for example, can develop in people who have a loved one endure a serious event as strongly as does in the person who experienced the actual event."

I agree, however....it is not the same as the person that is actually experiencing it.

I used cancer as an example in my posts and I will use it again. I have been devastated by loss of people that I loved due to cancer. But I cannot honestly say I know what it is like to live with the thought that the cancer growing in your body could kill you.

Both scenarios have a strong impact on us, but very different experiences.

Tabasko said...

C Fergy #198: Absolutely. My comments were just coming from my professional observations. I have been a licensed social worker for almost 20 years. I worked a long time in Child and Family Services and just wanted to say Harry would definitely have some valid feelings about stalking if a sibling had that experience. I don't think our TV Tom is a stalker, either, by the way.

This is not the forum for this, an online TV show blog, but I recently worked on a case that involved a form of abuse and the brother/witness was very severely affected. They will both be facing many years of recovery.

Your feelings are important and valid. So are his. None of us can really know what another is enduring, even if we are going through the exact situation as another. Every person's experience is unique and important.

Your own situation is absolutely terrible and I hope it is done for you as much as it can be and your local law enforcement has been supportive. I am sad to hear that you would have to deal with that.

Lastly, anyone with psychological issues of any kind can only be diagnosed by a licensed medical professional after a significant in-person analysis.

Not really why I came to this blog.

Hopefully , Mary Will come by and tell me a joke.

fangirl said...

Until Mary arrives with some fresh jokes, here are some stale ones ...


How many TV show directors does it take to change a lightbulb?
Answer: "One more!"

__


How many TV stars does it take to change a lightbulb?
Answer: "One. He holds the lightbulb, and the rest of the world revolves around him."

__


A TV producer, director, and DP (director of photography) are scouting locations. As they’re wandering around, one of them spots an antique, Aladdin-looking lamp. Naturally, they decide to rub it, and, just as naturally, a genie pops out. The genie says, “Since there are three of you, I will grant you each one wish.”

The DP says, “I want my own film studio in Hawaii, where I can film the world's best scenery in the world's best weather.” The genie says, “Your wish is granted.” POOF! the DP disappears.

The director says, “I want to make the most popular TV series ever, with a limitless budget, a stellar cast, and the best writers.” The genie says, “Your wish is granted.” POOF! the director disappears.

Then the TV producer glances at his watch and says, “I want them both back here in five minutes.”

Tabasko said...

fangirl #200: Those are funny! Thank you for the laughs. :)

Chompstick said...

I have chosen to address this issue privately with Harry via email.

Regarding Fergy's initial post #167 above, I agree with it in its entirety. I believe Fergy only has Harry's well being in mind, as I'm sure we all do. Fergy's style is frank, and I appreciate that because I always know where things stand. As Mary said, it is so difficult to interpret tone and intent through written word. I feel confident supporting Fergy's good intentions because I have known her (And Redravenous) longer than anyone on any BL forums. There are only 4 people who commented back then who are still around on any forum, and one of those is Redrav.

I also stand 100% behind Fangirl's comments. This woman is love personified and she goes to great lengths not to speak in a detrimental, dishonest way.

To those of you who don't see any instances of disrespect, it is because I have deleted them and spoken to any people responsible. It took an hour of reading through comments and then deleting perhaps 20 of them, at 6AM, which did NOT make me happy!

Just for the record, I too was stalked for 12 YEARS by a sociopath. I had to give up my beloved business and sell our house to escape. Unfortunately, he found us and then my son and I were the target of a kidnapping by a meth addict, but we escaped. Another woman was not as lucky ... she was kidnapped by him the following day. Fortunately this jerk is imprisoned.

My point of sharing this story is to agree with others that this type of trauma lingers and haunts us at unexpected times. We worry that Harry is currently in this place, and only want the best for him. Sadly, that might be abandoning the show, but only he can decide what's best.

As I said earlier, the rest of my communication with Harry will remain private.

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